Atheist Frendly Q&A

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Yes, it certainly is not a place to go into a deep debate, but what I believe PG is doing is avoiding the follow up questions that people are asking him.

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I don't have a problem with his position. As laid out in the topic title, this is Q&A.

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It's also not instant gratification.

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When some belief is challenged the first and most common reaction is to erect a barrier and retreat. But questions have a strange effect. Once asked they do not go away. Hopefully, PG will consider the question and think about it. A response may not be immediate, we are touching on some fundamental issues here.

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A discussion becomes circular when the question asked has been answered, often several times. I call it the 'yeah-but' game, regardless of what is being said in response, 'yeah-but' rears his ugly butt, and the answers are refused one after the other. Or, bait and switch is another method, manipulating the conversation and backing the manipulatee into a corner, gleefully enjoying success, when success is claimed. It is a form of dishonesty I loathe. Badgering the witness, in this case the witness for the Christ. I will not participate. I expect someone to say 'I don't believe what you said, or in your case 'I understand what you said, but don't agree', and let it be. But that does not feed the ego, the delight felt when beating someone to death with words.
So far I have seen this from just three people, I say 'just' with a glad heart, the 'gangupmanship' can reach major proportions.
I'll give you the best answer I have for the best question you have, don't dishonor that agreement.
Thanks, Jar, see ya later.........remember, Aslan is the only lion, 'old man' (LOL) and Arie gur Yehuda means 'Lion of the Tribe of Judah', perhaps you know already.

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Pascal's Wager......nice try.

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Me too.

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The only problem is, what you call "circular", several of the rest of us call "refusing to admit that you were wrong or that someone else has a better argument than you."

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As far as I have been able to tell, the questions have been, indeed, honest.

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Your replies lead to more probing questions, but you get irritated at such probing, apparently preferring that we just accept your first answer and stop the continued questioning.

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Like I said, unbelievers generally ask too many questions and think too much to be content with pat answers from believers.

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"Prudentia, sapientia, intelligentia, mens, cogitatio, discretio, id quod Spiritus sapit," "The wisdom, the understanding, the mind, the thought or contrivance, the discretion of the Spirit, that which the Spirit savoureth," .is to be spiritually minded.The difference is stated in Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.The not-spiritually minded cannot understand the things of the Spirit, or biblical things, and should not be asked to do so.
1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1 Corinthians 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;The not-spiritually minded sees spiritual matters as foolishness and, indeed, must. His thought processes dictate it to be so. Therefore, any and all answers given, are rejected and must be rejected, they are foolishness to him.To ask why does he not understand what I have just said, is also foolishness and an injustice. To answer questions of a spiritual nature is a waste of time, and we go round and round, and at the end of it all, still no understanding, because there cannot be.My responses are designed as a courtesy, more for the silent bystander than for the active questioner, and stopped when this purpose has been served.

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We are incapable of understanding your half answers and deceptions because we are "foolish" and not of a sufficiently spiritual nature?

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I have shown from scripture that what is scriptural is foolishness to those of a not-spiritual mind. It means that scripture is foolishness to those who are not of a spiritual mind. I have not said you are foolish, I have not said anyone is foolish, I have said that there are those who are not spiritually minded to understand or accept scripture (at its word), and that requires a spiritual mind, not nature.

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You say that now, of course. This is the kind of deception I was refferring to. Now that the paucity of reason in your position has been revealed, you say that you never meant to debate in the first place. Why did you post it here, then? You are only claiming this now as some sort of half-ass face saving maneuver.

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I have never debated except to a certain level or extent. If that means, to you, that I am saying I never meant to debate, that is what it means to you.You are only claiming that you know what I'm claiming.What is the difference between spiritually-minded and a spiritual nature? VAST. Everyone has a spiritual nature, not everyone is spiritually-minded.Now tell me, John 3:16, for God so loved the world, he gave his only-begotten son, that whosever believes in him, should have eternal life........what does it mean?It also says that the things of the world are enmity against God. Reconcile the two.

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What does John 3:16 mean to me? It is a poetic wording of the gift brought by Christ, which is the exact same gift brought by all the dying and resurrecting gods from Baldur on down. The knowledge that death is part of life and not to be feared. All myth does nothing more then teaching by metaphor what it means to be human and what it takes to be human. It is about making the vital transition in life to what has been called "oneness with the absolute", where one realizes that the divine lives in us all and is at once the most precious, common, and unrecognized of things. In other words, to die is to be human and there is no finer thing to be. The problem with literal belief such as yours is that it can often obscure the real value and meaning of myth.

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That's very nice and a great story. What do you care how I take the scriptures, what do you really care. What business is it of yours? Any? Some? None?

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I suppose this will be a dead end, because you are incapable of questioning your literal belief and you will either declare this circular or foolish and run away. Life as a follower is very easy. Welcome to it.

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What reason do I have to question my way of believing? What reason do you have to question yours?A dead end because I am not capable of questioning my literal belief?
Declare it circular or foolish?That makes no sense to me, which is a good thing.

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Pascal's Wager......nice try.

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What do you care how I take the scriptures, what do you really care. What business is it of yours? Any? Some? None?

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You offer them up here at a debate forum and then don't want them questioned? Curious.

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What reason do I have to question my way of believing? What reason do you have to question yours?

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I question mine all the time. That is how one grows. You should give it a try.

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A dead end because I am not capable of questioning my literal belief?

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Yes. Anytime you are confronted with something that casts doubt on your pedantic, literalist worldview and would cause a reasonable person to question themselves, you find some excuse to withdraw by...

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Declare it circular or foolish?

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Yes. That's how.

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That makes no sense to me, which is a good thing.

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It really isn't.

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Not on your life and never on your terms or anyone else's.
But good for a haha!

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Not on your life and never on your terms or anyone else's.
But good for a haha!

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And that is your problem. Belief in a thing without question is never good. Close-mindedness is not a virtue. The fact that you are so secure not asking why and simply following that you can only laugh at those who think, learn and question is very, very sad.

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ROFL
I hope your delusions of grandeur are not too painful.
Now, may the Sun of Righteousness rise upon you with healing in his wings.
God bless you real good.

[quote]I was pointing out PG's refusal to discuss his beliefs when requested and that it is bad for an individual to fail to critically consider their beliefs. I stand by my position and reaffirm that it was something that needed to be said to PG. It was in no way an "ambush"

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Pascal's Wager......nice try.

[quote]I was pointing out PG's refusal to discuss his beliefs when requested and that it is bad for an individual to fail to critically consider their beliefs. I stand by my position and reaffirm that it was something that needed to be said to PG. It was in no way an "ambush"I changed my mind about a reply to this. It isn't worth it.

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Frankly, if you are going to take part in these discussions you need to do better. Your tactic of running in, tossing in a firebrand and then when challeged, simply retreating into some protective coccoon is NOT debate or discussion.

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If you are going to insert a comment, be prepared to discuss and support your statements. If you're not going to do so, then don't bother making the initail assertion.

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I have clearly stated and so from scripture why, at a certain point, I decline to continue in 'discussion'. That is because, in my opinion, continuing is no longer profitable and has nothing to do with cocoons, but prudence and a deep respect for the Word of God.
Discussing scripture is not for slugfests, it is a holy matter, and must be approached with respect.If this is not acceptable to you, please indicate that it is not, and invite me to leave this forum

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Pascal's Wager......nice try.