Right wing conservatives are evil? Well, I have evidence that they are.

Which alter ego do you mean? Troy? Or Jacen? Or how about Resurrected Hector?? BTW Of all of your many names, Lam...I like Troy and Jacen the best. And yes...I wondered where you have been?Do you consider me right wing? How about Evil?

Nah. You're just hopelessly confused

I know. I used to be a nice guy until I became filled....with MYSELF!
heh.heh.heh.halleleujah!Editors note: When posting as Reverand Farright, the once fair and balanced Phatboy will become totally irrational and will be a bit of an idiot. Beware! heh heh heh halleleusers!This message has been edited by Reverand Farright, 04-02-2005 11:07 AM

thats awesome

holmes writes me:

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Generally no, because it is the creationists who are trying to equivocate on the term "science"

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They want their definition of 'science' to hold sway, just as they do with 'natural'. So why wasn't it buzsaw who was equivocating? He made his comment with full knowledge that not everyone accepts his definition of 'natural'.

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The more important question is do you use your tactic often, and does it work?

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Not often, but I have before. It usually ends with a request to find another word, which is almost certain to be ignored. But I will bring the point up simply because it is offensive to me to hear homosexuality characterized as unnatural. It isn't unnatural, regardless of whether the small-minded person making the charge is using the term to mean immoral (and incidentally, when I look up the word 'natural' the only definition that comes close to what you're assigning to buz is 'moral'. There isn't one word about the bible or god. I don't accept the authority of the bible for anything, so why should I acknowledge a definition of 'natural' as 'of god' or 'in accordance with biblical morality'?)

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Yes, essentially my first reply to you was not an overt indictment...

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Agreed, but my very first post to you said merely: In your very next post to me, you characterized that as "throwing a fit". I took that as an indictment.

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Your repeated defense of your action, which if the above is true you were simply playing dumb with me, gave me the impression you did not have that motive.

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And your unjustified rage toward me gave me the impression that there was something deeper at work than your quibbling point.

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In any case, my request stands. Its a cheap ploy and doesn't make your position look good and it is pretty annoying (only sending people down semantic sidepaths).

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Well it certainly seems to annoy you, but that is of no particular concern to me.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

This simply is not true. Yes they want their "science" considered as equal to "modern science", and they want people to view homosexuality as "unnatural-2". But they don't want people to believe it is "unnatural-1" which is that it does not happen. I mean if it did not happen, what is the condemnation of?Buz and others like him could try and equivocate on that, but it is less likely they would. If they did so I'd certainly be blasting him for it. It is not immoral to you, it is immoral to Buz and his God. You are correct that the dictionary does not mention God. It really doesn't have to. It shows various meanings.If I had a book of Buz's life and in it he said that homosexuality is immoral, then we know he considers it thus. The Bible is the book of God to many people, including Buz and thus it is saying that that God believes it is immoral.You can doubt whether there is a God, that God, and whether that God really means to say homosexuality is immoral, or that the proscription is still in place. The one thing that can't be argued is that he is using a term to say "immoral", rather than that it is actually seen in nature. I think you are focusing in on that too much. However it is obviously my error since it did nothing to furthetr discussion. It was hyperbolic and meant as color, not as a point of argument. I apologize and withdraw the characterization if that will help.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

prophex writes:

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There is no reason really to debate over something like this, you may see this as me trying to get out of a monster that somehow I created but it's trivial when there are people who don't know truth. Who don't know God.

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You have said that homosexuality is unnatural and illogical, that it is unreasonable, peculiar and pointless, that it is a hindrance to one's goals and purpose, that gay relationships are meaningless, that gay relationships exist only for the purpose of immediate gratification and that homosexuality is a choice. Further, you stated flat-out that you have no intention of trying to understand these issues from a different perspective. All of this nonsense may be prejudiced, bigoted, stupid and arrogant, but none of it is trivial. Your attempt to say that it is trivial is just one more example of your own bigotry, intolerance and arrogance.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

holmes writes me:

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This simply is not true. Yes they want their "science" considered as equal to "modern science", and they want people to view homosexuality as "unnatural-2".

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Uh huh, they want 'science' to mean something other than the observation-experimentation-conclusion-peer-review that most of us recognize, the same way they want 'unnatural' to adhere to their definition of 'unbiblical'. The difference is that only in the case of science is their view actually backed up by a dictionary. For their definition of unnatural they have only the bible for authority.

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I think you are focusing in on that too much. However it is obviously my error since it did nothing to furthetr discussion. It was hyperbolic and meant as color, not as a point of argument. I apologize and withdraw the characterization if that will help.

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I thank you for that in all sincerity, but my only point in mentioning it was to respond to your statement that your first post to me was not an indictment. I was trying to show that your very next post to me was an unreasonable indictment.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

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Further, you stated flat-out that you have no intention of trying to understand these issues from a different perspective.

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Haha, you have difficulty reading my posts?I think you should re-read it. You have twisted my posts once again, and at this point it's not worth it.

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more mmmmmore to the the human race

prophex responds to me:

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Further, you stated flat-out that you have no intention of trying to understand these issues from a different perspective.

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Haha, you have difficulty reading my posts?

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I think you should re-read it. You have twisted my posts once again, and at this point it's not worth it.

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Then why did you apologize for the fact that you refuse to try understanding from a different perspective?

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

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Just stop pretending to be a scientist and you can flame on about gay people all you want without dealing with me.

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Well, if you scroll up, maybe hit "previous" you can see that my intentions were really not to "flame" gay people, but to do the exact opposite.

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People are People, no matter sexual preference, although I don't think it is a good thing to be a homosexual, its not natural, and takes away the chance to meet a life-companion meant for you. Like in Eternal Sunshine of the spotless minds.

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I already told you I couldn't refute the paper you gave me, of course you didn't write it, so I don't really know what puts you in position to judge, and insult me, after my repeated apologies, and justifications for what I said, and lamented in doing so. Instead of hypocritically "flaming" me for my age, try posting something of your own, holmes would be a good example to follow.

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As to your questions, I will not respond to you. If you haven't noticed, I haven't been participating. I don't like talking to deaf ears... or rather blind eyes.

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You haven't thought about my intentions or my apologies, even after this post you probabaly will continue, read the posts, and think about the "blind eyes" statement. I realize you haven't been participating, rather putting in little replies, and passing links to papers done by real researchers and scientists. Your participation has only provided me with a negative aura of someone who could care less about this topic. So why post?Why not try to open the eyes you talk about as unseeing? Why complain and refuse to add to anything positive to the topic.
I apologize for what I have said that put you in this position, and I regret having posted on this topic for the image of a bigot is not what I wanted to get out of it. Peace

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more mmmmmore to the the human race

double postThis message has been edited by prophex, 04-02-2005 02:53 PM

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more mmmmmore to the the human race

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Then why did you apologize for the fact that you refuse to try understanding from a different perspective?

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I am honestly sorry for my arrogance at times, and my unwillingness to leave myself and step in the shoes of another for just a moment.

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This was meant to be something that would show you that I cared, that that is something one has to do. I need to do it more often. This was mos def not meant to mean that I was unable to do it, that I wouldn't do it because of my prejudices!I can see how you would have thought that, and this makes me face what I read about in "Siddhartha"- Herman Hesse. That putting into words what one believes is almost impossible, the direct thought of the mind is hard to express here, and I'm afraid I made a mistake, and should have been more clear. This is a misrepresentation my beliefs.Another thing that got mixed up, when I said this is trivial, I was referring to the disscussion on homosexuals, when there are many more important things that we should be talking about. I should of stepped out a long time ago. This focus on homosexuals seperates them from me, which is a tradgedy, as I can see now... I am a bigot to the majority of you.. This is not what I wanted. Many have simply stopped responding to me, this may be a reason, and it isn't good.

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more mmmmmore to the the human race

prophex writes Lam:

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I apologize for what I have said that put you in this position, and I regret having posted on this topic for the image of a bigot is not what I wanted to get out of it.

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Why is this always the extent of your apologies? You're sorry that you refuse to try seeing things from a different perspective while maintaining your refusal to try seeing things from a different perspective (and indeed you admonish Lam for not accepting your refusal to try since it was couched in an "apology") and you're sorry that you've made yourself appear to be a bigot. A couple posts ago I listed about half a dozen bigoted statements from you, none of which you've apologized for. The only thing you're truly sorry about is that you tripped up and revealed yourself to be a wilfully ignorant bigot.

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Keep America Safe AND Free!

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Why is this always the extent of your apologies? You're sorry that you refuse to try seeing things from a different perspective while maintaining your refusal to try seeing things from a different perspective (and indeed you admonish Lam for not accepting your refusal to try since it was couched in an "apology") and you're sorry that you've made yourself appear to be a bigot.

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Scroll.At this point your still not accepting what I have tried to get across. Looking at things from another perspective is a necessity for life in general, and my misrepresentation has brought you to this?

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A couple posts ago I listed about half a dozen bigoted statements from you, none of which you've apologized for. The only thing you're truly sorry about is that you tripped up and revealed yourself to be a wilfully ignorant bigot.

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Right now, I would ask for another chance, but that isn't what you want me to have, you're loving this, this is your chance to keep this thing going. Suit yourself.

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more mmmmmore to the the human race