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Author | Topic: Christian Group has bank account removed due to "unacceptable views" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You are right, I was imprecise. Not that you didn't know that, you clever trapper. I mean we can't disallow private SINS, period.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right now in the US we have seen decades of persecution of native Americans, Afro Americans, gays, and the mentally ill. Far from it lfen. What we have seen in the US in the last century is the CORRECTION of previous periods of injustice to such groups, and in the case of the mentally ill there is some question whether forcing them out into the streets was any great blessing to them. (Mental hospitals were originally founded as Christian charities out of compassion for the mentally ill, whatever they may have degenerated into). What we are seeing RIGHT NOW is continued haranguing about rights that have long since been granted, for the purpose of demonizing conservatives, by the Left whose agenda has always been the destruction of the West. They are continuing to succeed and they appear to have your support.
Do you think Christians will be as persecuted as these groups? Far more.
The President of the United States is a Christian as are many legislators. I wouldn't be surprised to see a massive sudden sea change in all that, coming soon.
We have already seen the Communists blocks persecutions of the Church but in Europe and Russia that is passing away. But it's picking up in the Middle East, Africa, Indonesia, China, North Korea...
And historically how bad was it in Rome, vs the stories the Christians later told about it. I'm not saying it was good, but I think the Church exaggerated it and eventually they persecuted by burning and slaughter non Christians. Christians violate the Bible in persecuting anyone for heresy, which to my mind makes them non-Christians, but servants of the anti-Christ. As far as Rome goes, Nero did burn Christians as torches to light his gardens, and various Caesars did put them in the arena to be torn to shreds by lions for sport. I did read some of Foxe's Book of Martyrs but it's been a while.
Around the world persecutions occur for many reasons, tribal, religious, political some of it is really horrible. Yes, Christians aren't alone in being persecuted but they are consistently persecuted for their beliefs wherever they ARE persecuted.
I don't think Christians except in specific countries like China, but China is persecuting all kinds of people, that is the definition of a totalitarian government. True. And in China the reports are that the Christian population is increasing by thousands per day too - because persecution and martyrdom has always been a catalyst for growth. Some predict that it won't be long before China is 50% Christian.
This bank thing has precedent in the complex civil right issues. It's not an opening shot in the persecution of Christians. No, it's simply another expression of it. There really are no more legitimate government-level or even public level civil rights issues in the West, except the growing marginalization of Christians in my opinion, but I know that's not going to get any attention soon. This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 09:07 PM This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 09:18 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
What you are describing and Ned and Lfen IS hate, whether you want to call it that or not.
What is character assassination, personal depreciation, denigration of personality etc. but hatred? This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 09:22 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Last point. In the first 30-odd posts not one person seemed to grasp that the principle to suspend the account was a long established one, ie the Co-op did not invent this to stop this one group. Christian Voice would have been aware of this at the time they opened the account. It was clear that the policy was in force, but CV says they made their program quite clear and were not refused the account on the basis of it, only later dropped despite the previous understanding.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
CV says they discussed their work before opening the account, whether that amounts to a Mission Statement or not I wouldn't know. What's slanderous about his repeating what the Bank representative himself acknowledged?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Hatred isn't an emotion as I am using the term, nor do I use the word "love" in that sense either. They are both actions. You have repeatedly depreciated me and bullied me in a personal way and that is hating me. To say you pity me is to say something personal and denigrating and that is hating me. You treat me with disrespect, that's hating me.
Interesting how willing you all are to smear me and support each other no matter how abusive any individual gets. Typical mob psychology. Oh, and all men but one against a lone woman. How gallant. How the West has fallen. I have not libeled you. I have drawn logical conclusions from some of your statements to make a point. This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 10:27 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, perhaps it is the "love of money [that is] the root of all evil" calling the shots there. That would make sense. Can't jeopardize our profits for the paltry purpose of defending God and morality.
Whilst the law and Government is supporting sexual diversity and equality, the general population is not. Same here. So much for "government of the people, by the people, for the people." Hang it all, let the nation come under God's wrath. "Oh but we don't BELIEVE in that." Well, God does, so good luck. This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 10:26 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I think people should do as they please but not do it in anybody's face, such as in parades down main streets, ========== Oh, do you mean like Christmas and Easter parades? I answered this silliness elsewhere but I guess you didn't check the other answers taking advantage of my imprecise wording, which is all it was and you know it. The point is tolerance of SIN. We are to TOLERATE it, as we are all sinners, short of criminal behavior of course, but not CELEBRATE it, FLAUNT it, PROMOTE it. That's the point. I hope it's clear but if I've failed to be as clear as necessary I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out what I meant and help me out here a little. But I suppose many would prefer gay parades to anything that reminds them of Christianity. It's come to that here in the formerly Christian West.
and not be given any special status by the government for doing it === Oh, do you mean like the fact that Christmas is a national holiday? SO clever of you. Yes, Schraf, that's going too, isn't it, and I suppose when it's completely outlawed you will dance in the streets along with the guys in the pink feathers.
and not be allowed to change 6000-year-old crosscultural tradition to accommodate what they do (gay marriage), and not be allowed to change 6000-year-old crosscultural tradition to accommodate what they do (interracial/interfaith marriage) The 6000 years and the universal cultural practice clearly establish the historical purpose of marriage as the protection and support of women and children by men and society. There is no such need, except a manufactured ideology, for any such function for gays. And those 6000 years of crosscultural practice do not justify opposition to interracial marriages, although like the prohibition of interfaith marriages, it seems to me that ought to be a cultural or familial right, short of murdering the participants anyway, or at least the female, as is done in Islam of course.
And not be subjected to any kind of persecution for it. ======= So, a gay couple who doesn't invite you to their wedding and just wants to live their life together in peace is OK with you? As I said, it's their business. When government changes laws about marriage that becomes my business.
Guess what, I also think bigots are human beings and to attack personal beliefs no matter what they are, including bigotry, such as by denying services to them, makes the deniers worse than bigots. Leave people alone. I work at a Jewish deli. If people came into the store dressed in white sheets at tall, pointy hoods, or perhaps in Nazi or Hitler costumes, would you consider the managers or the owners at fault for refusing to serve them? I've already made it clear on this thread that I believe business may refuse to serve whomever they please for whatever reason. This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 10:50 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Protection of course, since we're all sinners, but government or any kind of official accommodation to such behavior calls down judgment on the society. ========= ...according to you, the final arbiter of all things correct about Christianity. Want a list of those who agree with me? Start with Christian Voice. That's the point they are making behind their actions that the Co-op bank doesn't like.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Pedestals not required, just basic respect. Not much of that around here. Didn't even see a post by Entomologista, but that's sweet too, two females and half a dozen guys all against me.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess there's no talking to someone who won't bother to make basic disctinctions. Smear away, there's no stopping you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Personally I am glad that the Government and the law does not operate on the whims, prejudices and biggotry of the people. Exactly. That is exactly how the voice of the people gets trampled and elitist fascistic tyranny takes over. All that Western history come to naught. Pile up the evil labels against the people, trash them, smear them, deprive them of a voice-- if you can't get them deprogrammed in a good leftie consciousness-raising program of course -- and bye bye democracy, and you guys just don't get it, do you?
The principle of a just law is that all are equal in the sight of the law. Except the majority of the people according to you.
Not the one with the loudest voice or the biggest bank balance or the best looking or who owns the media or is friends with the friend of the local Big Cheese. The law is blind, meaning blind to money, influence, colour, sexual preference and social standing. As to your accusation that profits cannot be jeopardized by principles, how about profits generated by principles? Co-op investors seem to agree. You are the one who gave that motive. I'm with Christian Voice in their assessment of the principles of the Co-op. All the rest is fine in the abstract.
Since when did God (your capital letters) mean the God of Christian Voice over and above the God of the majority of people that bank with the co-op or live in the UK? Up to about forty, forty-five years ago I think -- or maybe only a couple of decades? For a few hundred years back before that.
Since when did the morality of Christian Voice mean more than the morality of a long established (150+ years) bank and the majority of it's customers? The bank may be long-established but I'm sure you'd be hard-pressed to show that their current morality is long-established.
Do not mention blindly God and morality without stating specifically YOUR God and YOUR morality, otherwise you are the one being prejudiced and biased. My God is the FORMER God of Western Civilization, the FORMER God of Great Britain for a millennium or so, the FORMER God of the United States from its settling to some forty years ago or so. The God who made the West great. There is no other, and the UK once knew it, America once knew it. This message has been edited by Faith, 06-26-2005 11:18 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I apologize to you for calling you stupid. I was severely provoked at the time and you were part of the provocation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Don't you just get TIRED of the way you twist my meanings to misrepresent me when it would be so easy just to get the point and move on? I know I do.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I apologize for calling you stupid.
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