EvC Forum: separation of church and state - a christian perspective please.

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Topic: separation of church and state - a christian perspective please.

Tal

Member (Idle past 5707 days)

Posts: 1140

From: Fort Bragg, NC

Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 2 of 64 (222158)
07-06-2005 12:46 PM

Reply to: Message 1 by mick
07-06-2005 11:52 AM

I'll dive in.

First, let's see what is in the constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

What is the constitutional basis for separation of church and state?

I think the average christian (I consider myself one) would say that the christian faith had a big impact upon the founding father's lives and it was used as guidelines for setting up the American way of life. I don't think the founding father's ever intended to have christian sculputres, scriptures, and what have you to be eradicated from US society; or else why would they have put them there?

What the founding fathers did not want was a Church of America, like England had way back in the day. That's why they put in the constitution that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of any religion. That doesn't translate into "take the commandments out of the courthouse" in my view.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
	Message 1 by mick, posted 07-06-2005 11:52 AM		mick has not replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 1:02 PM	Tal has replied
	Message 8 by bob_gray, posted 07-06-2005 1:46 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 13 by Clark, posted 07-06-2005 2:17 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 54 by FreddyFlash, posted 04-25-2006 8:40 AM	Tal has not replied
	Message 58 by RAZD, posted 04-26-2006 8:58 PM	Tal has not replied

Tal

Member (Idle past 5707 days)

Posts: 1140

From: Fort Bragg, NC

Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 4 of 64 (222171)
07-06-2005 1:09 PM

Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
07-06-2005 1:02 PM

The issue of what did or did not impact the founding fathers' lives is irrelevant. The issue is how we, teh currently living, wish to organize our society today.

I thought the issue here was "separation" of church and state? Where did this come from?

The founding fathers intention was to set up a government, not a "way of life".

Ok, what impact does a government have on an individuals way of life? Quite a bit.

No one here is advocating eradicating them from society.

Sure you are. The assault has been on since 62 when they removed prayer from school. Now you want God taken out of the courtroom, prayer out of everything, and God wiped from the pledge.

And in my view it does.

Ok, tell me how the commandments being presented at the front of a courthouse is congress making a law respecting the establishment of a religion and the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.

What law was passed?

If no law was passed, what is your argument?

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
	Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 1:02 PM		Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 14 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 2:23 PM	Tal has replied
	Message 16 by Silent H, posted 07-06-2005 2:34 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 27 by nator, posted 07-07-2005 8:08 AM	Tal has not replied

Tal

Member (Idle past 5707 days)

Posts: 1140

From: Fort Bragg, NC

Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 15 of 64 (222202)
07-06-2005 2:33 PM

Reply to: Message 5 by Alexander
07-06-2005 1:12 PM

Yes, wouldn't you be just a bit distressed to walk into a courtroom with a sign proclaiming that 'thou shalt have no other gods before me'? If you were anything but a christian (and to be more specific, a christian who acknowledges that particular set of commandments) I think you would be.

Ok, tell me how the commandments being presented at the front of a courthouse is congress making a law respecting the establishment of a religion and the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF.

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
	Message 5 by Alexander, posted 07-06-2005 1:12 PM		Alexander has not replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 29 by nator, posted 07-07-2005 8:24 AM		Tal has not replied

Tal

Member (Idle past 5707 days)

Posts: 1140

From: Fort Bragg, NC

Joined: 12-29-2004

Normal Thread Display

Message 17 of 64 (222204)
07-06-2005 2:35 PM

Reply to: Message 14 by Chiroptera
07-06-2005 2:23 PM

It is implicitly promoting the beliefs of those who hold the ten commandments sacred.

So what law did congress make respecting the establishment of a religion?

This message has been edited by Tal, 07-06-2005 02:36 PM

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

"A good plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed at some indefinite point in the future."
- General George Patton Jr

This message is a reply to:
	Message 14 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 2:23 PM		Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 18 by Chiroptera, posted 07-06-2005 3:09 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 19 by deerbreh, posted 07-06-2005 3:14 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 22 by Silent H, posted 07-06-2005 3:50 PM	Tal has not replied
	Message 24 by crashfrog, posted 07-06-2005 5:26 PM	Tal has not replied

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