separation of church and state - a christian perspective please.

Much of the controversial banter has to do with interpretation of law.
The conservatives want judges who will not interpret the law but, rather, uphold it. To them, law is an absolute concept that never chnages in basic intent.The liberals believe that law is an evolving concept that changes with the times and the whims and wills of the people. They have a point in that earlier laws used to be quite draconian in nature.The conservatives have a point, however, when the maintain that law is an absolute rather than a relative concept. In other words, the will of the people is often not what is best for them. how many people would be for abolishing tough measures on speeding in certain areas, for example?Separation of church and State was designed to keep the state out of the church more than keeping the church out of the state. Of course, now that America is defined as a pluralistic relativistic society rather than a Christian absolutist moral society, religious influence will be forced out of government and limited to churches. The issue, however is whether a secular government is even capable of defining morality on relativistic terms. Human nature is such that if no absolute God is acknowledged within our mind, any other alluring concept can become a substitute for that absolute. As an example, if a family is nuts over football to the point of erecting a shrine room to the Dallas Cowboys in their basement, they may not consciously be worshipping "other gods" but they are surely subconsciously allowing for an idolatrous worship, attention, and attention to be paid to a non-deity. The same could be said for centerfold models, (who are tongue in cheek referred to as goddesses) heck even some families put their kids on a pedestal that is un necessary.This is what is mean't by having no other gods before Me. It means paying full attention to God and loving Him with your whole heart, mind, and strength. It does NOT mean doing a few little conscious easing good
deeds throughout the week and devoting entire days to football, low rider cars, or any other modern "idols" of our materialistic world.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 07-06-2005 12:12 PM

The greatest commandment..(both of them)

It is true that either political ideology wants judges to interpret the law as THEY see it. Legislating from the bench is an attempt to redefine established standards based on "modern" relativistic concepts. Spme of us think that humanity is incapable of actually determining morality for itself...since humanity is flawed in nature.Of course, the other side disagrees! (BTW Schraff, I am playing devils advocate, here. Personally, I believe that what will be is mean't to be, whichever way that it goes.)

And that is the crux of the issue. For the conservative, not to decide is to decide. That is why conservativism claims an absolute truth. To not agree on this truth means that everyone agtrees on relative morality and relative truth, which is equal to "ye shall be as gods"....ye shall make your own truth.

The internal state that you speak of is the very Spirit of God. I know that you seem to believe that God is "in" everyone, whereas I rather believe that He (and/or His Spirit) is "with" everyone. He only comes "in" when your internal state allows His presence and His soverignty to exist. The internal state that treats God as a philosophical concept of ones own mind is not the internal environment where the Spirit can thrive,IMHO. It takes a faith that this Spirit is real--even over what a "logical" mind can grasp.

I guess that I am having a hard time with the two commandments being relative. Love God (an absolute) with all (an absolute) your heart, strength, mind, etc... We all love God relative to our inability to die to our own idols and interests. He commands absolute love and we give Him relative love. Perhaps the absolute is in our will within our intentions. One can believe and love absolutely, can't they?

Good point, Charles. Let me ask you this:
Do animals commit suicide? It is my understanding that in general, no. If you hated yourself, your "love" would be a relative construct within your own hurt mind, but it would still obviously stray off the absolute command. Surely, God knows each of us uniquely...in weakness, strength, arrogance, and humility.So if the question is whether everyones relative standards clash with Gods absolute command, the answer in Christian parlance is that God provided His Son to live an absolute standard in our place. We need only to accept this action as best as we can understand and embrace it.Were you to hate yourself, many culprits could do you in.
1) Medications. I personally know several people who cannot love temselves largely because they have lost the ability to feel pain and thus face problems.
2) Bad luck. Yes, there is not really luck involved, but some people have more challenges that hinder the open heart needed to trust anyone...much less God.One thing in our favor, I believe, is God Himself. He understands.
Even those who have committed suicide which is a grevious "sin" against God and self will be offered forgiveness before any sort of judgement.

I don't know about that, but I DO know that the infamous bumper sticker, "God is my Co-pilot" SHOULD read this way:
"I am God's Co-Pilot". The standards are not about trying to do your best only. The standard is Jesus Christ who Did the best that nobody else could or ever can do. Thus, it is not so much a matter of "trying". It is a matter of trust.

The debate is essentially between those who see themselves as upholding existing law versus those who see their job as reinterpretation of law. In this link, the ACLJ soundly defeats the ACLUs tired position regarding seperation of church and state. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.Consider this:Is it a prayer?
The following verse was read each day to a Florida kindergarten class. The school board said the purpose of the verse was to calm kids down and create a sense of appreciation for the world. Is the verse a prayer? How are students likely to interpret "you"? Could
"you" be Mother Nature or a Giant Slug?
We thank you for the flowers so sweet;
We thank you for the food we eat;
We thank you for the birds that sing;
We thank you for everything.This message has been edited by Phat, 04-25-2006 06:56 AM

It IS a controversial issue. I heard an I.D. proponent speak of the Christian moral duty in everyday life speaking on the radio yesterday. Here was an interview with one such Christian.Nancy Pearcey of the Discovery Institute. Listen to both days. You may not agree with her, but the central issue is "Is God a public figure or are the secularists right in maintaining the private view"? Very controversial!(She also wrote a book. This message has been edited by Phat, 05-03-2006 09:57 AM