The issue with me is that if Kate Winslet wasn't already a star when that pic had been taken, she never would have become one, or at least it would have been highly, highly unlikely.
There are actresses as large as she was in that picture. I'm uncertain why she couldn't have still become a star.
how "large" she was even when she was in Titanic.
Find me pics of any of the male leads in Titanic that were unattractive and overweight in some fashion. That is despite the fact that to be accurate to history the rich guys were more likely to be fat.
It's certainly true that Americans are getting fatter. But I never claimed that everyone actually took a lot of action in their lives to be thin. What I claimed was that the mass culture beauty ideal is very narrowly defined and that people feel inadequate if they do not meet it.
So people are creating and prefering imagery that is opposite of what they are doing to their own bodies, and then upset with themselves for not meeting that idyllic imagery. And the problem is the media?
who are cosidered incredibly beautiful yet are highly critical of and are negative towards their bodies. This has to come from somewhere.
Human nature combined with reinforced attitudes that the human condition is imperfect and needs to be perfected... not to mention that we have to be concerned with what society thinks about us and what is "right".
Lots of girls and women with eating disorders like anorexia and buimia report wanting to look like models. A significant percentage of girls as young as 6 years old think they are too fat and are on self-imposed diets.
So women with mental problems regarding body image focus on imagery relating to bodies?
That very young kids are being coerced by adults to believing conformation to societal standards is of great importance, that there is little difference between opinion and knowledge, that health is related to fat control, that anything is attainable given effort and sacrifice, and that sex is an unnatural desire which must be put off till a later singular person is found and the will be the height of personal development is likely why we are seeing young kids becoming increasingly aggravated and desperate about their weight.
The 19-34 age group had nearly 2 million cosmetic procedures, and 24 percent of all procedures. The most popular surgical procedure in this age group was breast augmentation (150,208 and 54 percent of the breast augmentation total).
Now doesn't that make sense? Women over 34 are probably less likely to be concerned about breast augmentation (except perhaps shape), and more likely to worry about weight control. All you are pointing to are rather obvious concerns one would be expected to be found based on developmental issues.
I might add that there were quite a number of breast reduction surgeries... more than nose surgeries.
The increases in use of surgery may also be a sign of increased confidence in and skill of surgical procedures, rather than increased desperation of a populace, driven by advertising.
Certainly laser eye surgery is on the increase, but that does not argue that people have suddenly become more dissatisfied with their current vision because of laser clinic advertising.
However, I am still pretty convinced that the culture is much, much harder on women regarding their appearence and is relentless in hammering home the idea that to fit the beauty image the companies put out is to be happy, successful, and desired.
I will agree that the beauty of women is more of a concern than the beauty of men. That may be because men are generally thought of as less attractive, more utilitarian, beings than women. You yourself have derided women who have male body appearance, in favor of more rounded features. Most people certainly deride males who begin to look like women. No one is featuring men's breasts in women's magazines.
It is true we are also part of a recent culture where the main, or common, sign of success for women as a goal, is marriage and family. However, no adult woman 0-45 can claim to have to relate to that culture, or have been influenced by it. And that's if one accepts that women before that "had to", which of course they didn't. Traditional feminists and fundamentalists are the only ones keeping that illusion alive within the spheres that they can control. Its like they are nurturing themselves on that, just as Xian and Islamic fundies are nurturing themselves using their outmoded conflict.
That said, if you expect to have a sexual partner or desire to be attractive to people, it is usually a good idea to nurture what physical and mental charms you do possess.
I also read an interview with her in which she characterized eating as "boring". I find that comment suspicious.
I have already told you that I dislike eating. Believe it or not some people are not fixated on eating as a prime pleasure in life.
I do know someone who was very thin (but not 5'10" and 95 pounds like Moss) and her doctor did advise her to eat things like ice cream and cheese and other calorie dense food because she was underweight and it was not healthy. I don't think Moss was healthy
I just said I didn't know if she was, but noted that there are some who are not ill and yet thin. My own family is characterized by a high metabolism leaving all of us rather to very thin up till 20's, and then usually staying pretty thin until 30's where our metabolism shifts and then we get rather pudgy until we reverse our accustomed diet from years of being able to eat anything.
Believe it or not thin people exist, and they get picked on. And what's great is that we get jerks who argue we are only that way because we are ill and are helping society pick on everyone that's overweight.
You want me to be conscious of your body issues, yet apparently feel compelled to dismiss or characterize anyone with an opposite body shape as being the product of dietary issues like anorexia or bolimia.
One of the your sources earlier noted that people can be naturally thin just as much as naturally heavy.
I think that the media, particularly fashion, should allow a greater representation of body types.
Then become a part of it instead of whining about what those that go into the industry choose to represent. I have already stated that Playboy is just one magazine and there are many others catering to many different tastes, including to the less fantasy oriented.
The more fantasy oriented a medium is the more it will have Idealized imagery, which will tend to be charicatures tending toward thinness or chubbiness. Looks like Playboy sides toward thinness in prediction that that is more saleable.
As long as they get sales that they want, there is nothing wrong with that. If you want to change what they show, show them how to get a greater market share by being more broad by becoming less idealized. Or feed the market toward greater representation by pumping money into those that do not show select Playboy imagery.
Your own argument seems to be one of becoming disengaged or antagonistic toward the marketplace of ideas and fantasy.
holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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