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Author Topic:   Is ID Scientific? (was "Abusive Assumptions")
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 199 of 292 (230964)
08-08-2005 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Evopeach
08-08-2005 10:46 AM


Re: ID and ICS: A Talking Point
Evopeach writes:
But if we remove from the human prokarotic cell the selectively semi-permeable membrane it fails catastophically, the cell is immediately non-functional and being ubiquitious the system is dead also.
Human prokarotic cell? Am I confused here, or are you claiming the humas have prokaryotic cells?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Evopeach, posted 08-08-2005 10:46 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Evopeach, posted 08-08-2005 11:57 AM FliesOnly has not replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 204 of 292 (231070)
08-08-2005 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Evopeach
08-08-2005 10:46 AM


Re: ID and ICS: A Talking Point
Hi again:
Ok, we've solved the prokaryotic/eukaryotic mistake, so let's move on.
Evopeach writes:
That would constitute IC and since there is no precursor that can be demonstrated operational in the same way absent the cell membrane by microevolutionary processes.
This does necessarily follow. Are you saying that without a cell, life does not exist and therefore the cell had to be intelligently designed? Why? First off, remember that evolutionary theory deals with life, so what came before is not addressed by the ToE.
Evopeach writes:
Thus the cell did not evolve and was then created by an ID.
Really? Why? A cell membrane is so complex that chemistry cannot explain its existence? A phosolipid bilayer is beyond mans comprehension and therefore has to be the result of a designer?
Let me ask you this: Do you believe that once a cell appeared (either by design or by natural processes), evolution may have done the rest? If so, then why do you believe that the only possible explanation for the cell is a designer? Why couldn’t processes similar to ToE also be used to explain the appearance of the first cells?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Evopeach, posted 08-08-2005 10:46 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Evopeach, posted 08-08-2005 3:57 PM FliesOnly has not replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 215 of 292 (231267)
08-09-2005 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Evopeach
08-08-2005 11:51 AM


Re: Fish or cut bait
Evopeach writes:
"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down" - darwin himself in Origin of Species.
But that's not the entire quote, is it Evopeach. Darwin went on to add: "But I can find no such case".
Evopeach writes:
Well the D.I. with 400 top scientific people covering many discliplines I guess will be doing your homework for you in due course what with unlimited funding amd exposure, certain court changes on the horizon and all.
I, for one, am looking forward to D.I. scientists doing some actual science as it relates to the ToE. Can't wait....all giddy with excitement...thrilled even.
Evopeach writes:
I suggest that their "careful and deliberate" reaxamination of the tenets of the evolutionary paradigm will involve ID, ICS and falsification.
And by this you must mean that via falsification (or lack there of), they will "carefully and deliberately show that ID and ICS do not fall under the realm of sciencethus showing their novel understanding of what really constitutes scientific investigation and their new, unwavering support for the theory of evolution. Correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Evopeach, posted 08-08-2005 11:51 AM Evopeach has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Evopeach, posted 08-09-2005 9:31 AM FliesOnly has replied

FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4175 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 224 of 292 (231300)
08-09-2005 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Evopeach
08-09-2005 9:31 AM


Re: Fish or cut bait
Evopeach writes:
(those 400 Phd types from every leading university in America and encompassing about 35 fields of teaching and research)
And how many are evolutionary biologists?
Evopeach writes:
due attention to the fantasmogorically suspect tenets of evolution mutation and natural selection as the agents of evolutionary change
Looks like someone needs to visit the Coffee House thread about Annoyances and read post No 30...
Evopeach writes:
And I suspect they even have ideas on scientific alternatives to those much overrated and suspect, essentially tautological tenets.
I could not care less about what you suspect. When they do some actual science, perhaps then they will be taken seriously by the scientific community. What do you "suspect" some of their scientific alternatives might be? Really, I'd be interested in reading just what you think qualifies as science.
Evopeach writes:
Won't it prove somewhat difficult to classify all those people like members of the National Academy of Sciences, to department heads at little schools like Rice, MIT on and on as misinformed non-scientist dunderheads?
What...am I suppose to shocked and awed by their pedigree? My brother went to Michigan, Stanford and MIT and he knows diddly squat about the Theory of Evolution...so what's your point...that I should abandon the science behind evolutionary biology and instead listen to my brother (an aerospace engineer) spout on about probabilities? He does, however, know a lot about physics and quite a bit chemistry, so I would not classify him as a non-scientist. At the same time, he is misinformed and I call him a dunderhead quite often. I suspect your very impressive list of people would fall into a same category.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Evopeach, posted 08-09-2005 9:31 AM Evopeach has not replied

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