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Author | Topic: Eye of the needle | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
metatron Inactive Member |
Famous bible qoute
"Its easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than to get a rich man into heaven". Ancient greek saying "Its easier to get a rope through the eye of a needle than to get a rich man into heaven". The ancient greek word for rope is camolis. When the christians stole this saying they did'nt translate properly.
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joz Inactive Member |
LMFAO
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6040 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
Is the Aramaic (I believe that's the right language for what we're tlaking about here) word for camel similar to "camolis"?
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funkmasterfreaky Inactive Member |
Interesting. So you are positive it was originally greek? This comes before my favorite verse. Don't see why it's considered stolen or faultily translated, even if the greeks did use it first maybe Jesus was just using this analogy with his own twist, just to use something farmiliar in order to clearly state a point. just a thought
------------------saved by grace
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blitz77 Inactive Member |
Actually, the 'eye of a needle' refers to a small area a few feet from the main gate entrance to Jerusalem. During the day the main gate is open, however at night the gate is closed, and travellers can only get in through the 'eye of a needle'. This 'eye of a needle' is very small, and is quite difficult to get through, only as tall as a horse/mule, and just wide enough for a horse/mule to get through. For a person to get through any man wanting to enter would have to duck and crawl through.
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Primordial Egg Inactive Member |
quote: Thats what I heard as well. ------------------It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. - Bertrand Russell
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Karl Inactive Member |
Unfortunately, it is the religious equivalent of an urban myth. There was no such name for the gate in Jesus' day. Jesus' point was simple hyperbole.
81. Leaving All to Follow (Luke 18:24-34) mentions this myth with references. I've heard the rope/camel point before - since the gospels were written in Greek, Greek is the relevant language. I have never heard that it was a pre-existing Greek saying - any support for this assertion, Metatron?
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blitz77 Inactive Member |
Well, looking it up on Google, it seems that the myth was wrong, and that it was translated wrongly.
Angelfire - error 404 quote: I tried looking for an ancient Greek saying about this, and it seems that the only Greek saying that fits the bill comes from Jesus.
quote: The correct translation is
quote: Thanks Karl for correcting me [This message has been edited by blitz77, 11-25-2002]
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Karl Inactive Member |
Going to have to correct you again, Blitz (sorry!)
The Greek does say Kamelon (accusative of Kamelos) (look it up at Greek Bible). If there was a copying error, it was before the texts we now possess. The site you found is a bit kooky - rather obsessed with his false etymology of names for God and Jesus in English translations. He falsly claims that Jehovah = Iovis (genitive case of Iuppiter), Jesus = Ge-Zeus, Adonai = Adonis, and other such linguistic nonsense. But I digress. Be critical where you get info from. There is a lot of fruitcake on the web, and masses of religious fruitcake.
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blitz77 Inactive Member |
quote: No problem. A rope or camel can't pass through the eye of a needle, so it doesn't make too much of a difference which it is
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judge Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 216 From: australia Joined: |
quote: Hi all! :-) I believe the word is originally aramaic, that being the Aramaic wrod "gamla", which could mean Camel, beam or large rope.The semetic root word being GML meaning 1)To ripen or 2)To bestow upon. The meaning as a rope can be confirmed in the work of 10th century aramaic lexiconographer Mar Bahlul who wrote an aramaic dictionary and gives the meaning a "a large rope used to bind ships".This meaning is confirmed also in the writings of george lamsa.. In his books, George M. Lamsa lists the Aramaic word GMLA as a word "with many meanings" and states that it can mean "Large rope; Camel; Beam" (The New Testament according to the Eastern Text; George M. Lamsa; 1940 ; p. xxiv). Elsewhere Lamsa writes; The Aramaic word GAMLA is the same word for "camel" and"a large rope". Matt. 19:24 should read, "It is easier for a rope to go through a needle's eye, etc." (The Four And in ...TEACH YOURSELF ARAMAIC By Dr. Mar Aprem; Mar Narsai Press Trichur, Kerala, India; 1981; p. 95 THE NEW COVENANT PESHITTA ARAMAIC TEXT WITH A HEBREW TRANSLATIONThe Bible Society; Jerusalem; 1986 p.356 The hebrew word GMLH seems also derived form the aramaic.. GMLH Post Biblical Hebrew; gangway, gangboard. Palestinian Aramaic GMLA; of uncertain origin.- A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language for Readers of English; By Rabbi Ernest David Klein Ph.D.; 1987; p.103 The arabic word JAMEL also means to bear a burden. On the greek loan word Khamelos....."Gk. kamelos (whence L. camelus), is a loan word from Heb.-Phon. GML" - A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the Hebrew Language for Readers of English; By Rabbi Ernest David Klein Ph.D.; 1987; p.103 Now according to the MANUAL GREEK LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT 3rd Ed. byG. Abbott-Smith; 1939; p. 229; there is an alternate spelling for Greek KAMHLOS which is KAMILOS. A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND OTHER EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERATURE; by Bauer-Arndt-Gingrich; 1957; p. 402; states that KAMILOS can mean "rope." Hope this is a help...:-) [This message has been edited by judge, 11-25-2002]
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Peter Member (Idle past 1508 days) Posts: 2161 From: Cambridgeshire, UK. Joined: |
quote: It does if you want to claim biblical inerrancy. If one word can be mistranslated, then why not others ... andif the bible is the word of God and all translators are touched by him to reveal the true word of God, how can it even happen?
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Just a small note: though the gospels do appear to have been written in greek-- there is a some debate that aramaic is the original language, which I have been looking into lately-- aramaic was certainly a major language of the region at the time, so mixing and matching a bit would be the human thing to do. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6040 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
"Hope this is a help...:-)"
Right on.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
Reminds me of a Qur'anic verse, also using the camel/eye of needle phrase:
QS Al-A'raaf (7):40Inna allatheena kaththaboo bi-ayatina waistakbaroo AAanha la tufattahu lahum abwabu alssama-i wala yadkhuloona aljannata hatta yalija aljamalu fee sammi alkhiyati wakathalika najzee almujrimeena YusufAli: To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin. [This message has been edited by Andya Primanda, 11-27-2002]
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