What if God foreknew human reactions?

God gave us a brain. I can understand why many educated people who once naively went to church now are "enlightened" and reject the whole religious concepts..including a God that they cannot see or prove. I can also agree that He foreknew that this would occur.
Furthermore, I can agree that He is powerless to make you accept Him.Because of this...He is off the hook.Im no psychologist, though. I never fought with my earthly Daddy, but I occasionally wished I could know him better.With God, I take Him for granted...after all He knows me better than I know myself.In that regard, I am no closer to Him than anyone else on this board.He draws all men unto Himself, according to scripture. Apparantly, I should not worry if everyone at EvC gets "saved" or "chosen".Maybe I should just do what I know to be right.

OK, Paul. think about what you just said. If scientists COULD talk to ants, conversing back and forth with them...they would be ecstatic! They would wanna chat with the bugs all day long! Why do scientists do what they do?
1) To learn more about the environment and universe around us.
2) To learn more about ourselves in the scheme of things and why we exist.So why would God want anything to do with self proclaimed intelligent apes? He knows everything anyway. Perhaps it is like the teacher who wants to spend a bit more time with the problem child.Out of all the animals, we are the ones not content to merely evolve. We want to learn to climb...to be all knowing, all powerful and all loving. Perhaps God, knowing how that feels, wants to spend some time with us and make sure that we do it right.Either that or maybe God is Himself evolving...even though He is omni everything, He now has a little creature who wants to be like Him...so He learns by teaching us. (I just threw that one out...I don't believe it!)This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-21-2005 02:08 PM

Good point...why are we as humans so curious about learning? Why do we so easily reject the God concept? Is it like a teenager that wants to be different from his parents? I mean, we all want to know more and more anyway...why not believe that someone already does?

If you believe the book, you would be a fool to freely deny Him. If you don't, you will always have the choice to deny Him. After all, who is He? So either truth is predetermined and living, or truth is human derived conclusions which are always evolving. If I kept an open mind to the latter, I would gain nothing. If you kept an open mind to the former, however, Pascal would have won his wager!

Yeah? I guess that what I see the book is is not some sort of ancient manuscript...I see the character of Jesus Christ talking to me as I recall certain scriptures for situations. It fits..like a hand in a glove even...but I can totally respect how a rationally minded logical thinker who was brought up to be critical and intuitive would avoid limiting their belief to one book.Jar says that thhe book is the map but not the territory. I say that the book is the character and imagination...but not God Himself. Jar, of course, would say "Herself!" I guess that in relation to the point of this topic, God foreknew that many would question His Word.What do we do, though? Voices of God=mental patients.
Scriptures misused = crooked evangelists or cult leaders.Subjective relationships with a God of our imagination= ?Its like to tell the truth: Will the real God please stand up?I believe that for each of us, if we really wanted God to be our God,
an Objective inner confirmation would occur at some point before our soul leaves our body.

Is it usual to "question" the Torah? Or is this what is mean't by Rabbinical commentaries and the great oral tradition?How about the Messiah? Why was Jesus so un-Messiahlike? (OR NOT?)

How about believing an idea? In other words, Could God be true whether or not we see the slighest bit of evidence?

What? Why is it legit to comment on N.T. Protestantism without being a Protestant, while it is "inappropriate" to discuss the Torah if not Jewish?

OK...so the "perfect" Messiah would bring about world peace, restore the Davidic Kingdom to just one ethnic group, and would never die...right?I guess someday some alien will show up with superpowers and we will fall for that one! Anyway...My point stands for all of us: God foreknew that we would think the way that we do. Mark 13:6-- Many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and will deceive many.

You certainly have many valid and solid arguments, Paul. I don't know exactly what you believe, but I DO know that when you consider the possibility of God, you have let Him know that you will never let your faith stand in the way of your intelligence!I never let my intelligence stand in the way of my faith.Even if I were an agnostic, I would never be an atheist, because it comforts me to know that if humanity fails me or my family, I would have a chance at survival without counting on human wisdom alone.Perhaps this was similar to the last thoughts in the South Tower...Did God foreknow that certain people would die on a certain day at a certain time? Did He make His Spirit available to them at the moment when they were faced with burning to death or jumping out a window?Was it literally a leap of faith for them, or a leap of agony? I believe that it was faith for them.

I agree with you. God judges us on where we are and where we know (or do not know) Him to be. The judgement is on whether we want Him to be in our lives or not. Some people say that they want Him, but then on their own terms. Others want nothing to do with Him yet would invite a stranger into their house from the cold. Only if I know in my heart that my belief is what I accept. I can then not go against what I have accepted.Religion has nothing much to do with it at all.You are better off questioning and praying in private and leaving the religious folks alone. It IS good for me as a believer to have a couple of like-minded folk to pray with. (In a way, even if we each do it privately, we are in communion)Salvation is an issue of the heart.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-22-2005 04:23 PM

If you met and fell in love with a beautiful woman, instantly realizing that she cared about you and that she was real..(well, more than real, really) she would in effect be a sex object. An object or an objective of your desire.The Church is said to be the Bride of Christ. To those who have felt or believed that they were "born again", they met the Holy Spirit and to them, God became very objective at that moment. The religious fanatics consider their zealous passion as proof of adoration for their Deity...an object...as it were. (many young people in Mosques and American Churches look to the Dad they never had in the Imam or Pastor..and would gladly die for them)But just as that woman becomes more than an object (or an objective) once you really love her and treat her as a part of yourself, so too do some spiritual people feel the same way with God. The problem, according to religious belief, is that our own desires as humans often conflict with Gods desires for us...and we "cheat" on Him by doing our will and not His will.The obvious question? How do you tell the difference? All I can say is that you know when your wife is angry with you even if she never says a thing. So too with God.By the way, old chap, we often go round and round on these things and all that I can really hope to convey to you is the sincerity of my beliefs...not in any way the truth or falsity of them.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-23-2005 02:53 PM