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Author Topic:   What if God foreknew human reactions?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 121 of 137 (247044)
09-28-2005 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by sidelined
09-28-2005 8:58 AM


If you are aware of it subjectively it must be measureable since your subjective reality is dependent upon the fundemental forces.
Dependent upon? Yes
Limited to? Unknown
Does the subjective experience have to be a fundamental/measureable force? Could it be of something other than a fundamental force, that we are unaware of scientifically?
Your reality is the manifestation of these forces.
But there could be more without science being able to detect it.
Was it us who were talking of absolute truth earlier?
Lets assume reality is what was described in The Matrix (the movie). Now the absolute truth would be that you are living in a pod being a battery but you experience tells you that you live in 'our world'.
Now, science would easily explain all the phemomena of our world and if repeatable it wouldn't matter what the absolute truth was and science would be unable to detect the absolute truth.
Also, someone(in the matrix) would not be able to scientifically explain the absolute truth via the laws of our world. But this doesn't mean it doesn't exist it only means that we have to assume that it doesn't for the sake of science.
What if someone woke up in their pod in the real world and had the vision of living as a battery and then returned to the matrix. That would be a subjective experience outside of the fundamental forces of the matrix(our world) and it would not be able to be detected in the matrix. It'd be just another dream result of fundamental force #2, but that doesn't make it not real. It just makes it impracticle and uneccessary to the science in the matrix world.
I'm not claiming to know the absolute truth, I'm just saying that things could exist that are real and undetectable by science. My subjective experience has suggested that there is more than the physical world that science has described to me. I could be crazy but I think the experiences are real. And of course it is easy to say that they are just the dream results of fundamental force #2 but that doesn't mean that they aren't/can't be real or the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by sidelined, posted 09-28-2005 8:58 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by sidelined, posted 09-29-2005 9:35 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 137 (247322)
09-29-2005 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by sidelined
09-29-2005 9:35 AM


A god which does not make himself known is no different than no god at all.
But it is different. It is not different to science or to life in 'our world', but if there is a god, and an afterlife, it does matter, even if he does not make himself known scientifically.
If a person feels that god has made himself known it would different than no god at all also.
Of course a perfect illusion would be,by definition, undetectable but so what?
The point was that the illusion is not perfect and some people did detect it, its just that you can't detect it from within the illusion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by sidelined, posted 09-29-2005 9:35 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by DominionSeraph, posted 09-30-2005 3:11 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 130 by sidelined, posted 10-01-2005 2:36 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 132 of 137 (247936)
10-01-2005 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by sidelined
10-01-2005 2:36 AM


This is the 2nd time I've typed this post because the first one was lost. This one is shorter so if you want me to expand on something just ask away....
Why would we persue that which does not evidence itself?
Science should not pursue the existence of god. It is irrelevant.
If you cannot know about an afterlife until you die what would be the use of wondering if such exists while you are alive? It cannot matter in the least while you are living.
It matters if this life affects the next one. For instance, whether you go to heaven or hell.
The need for such things does not dictate that such things are true
Certainly one may entertain this feeling that one has experienced god, however, this does not mean that such is the case
I’ve heard this before and I admit that I could be deluding myself. I’ve witnessed reasons, considered them and concluded that god exists the same way I would for another phenomenon. If I start saying that just because I think something exists doesn’t mean it really does exist then I’m on my way to nihilism, which I think is stupid.
Are you hinting that you have detected something that cannot be evidenced?
The detection is a constant subtle sensation of a non-physical component to my existence that seems to be connected to my body through my consciousness. Now, it is a feeling and like you siad:
the word feeling arises and this sensation that you experience is the result of fundamental forces {electromagnetism}
so when you ask:
If so please explain how this can be made aware to your senses without trace.
I’d say that it has left a trace. But no one can know what I’m feeling so is there really a trace? (reminds me of ”if a tree fall in the forest and no one is there . ’) It is a subjective trace so technically it is not a trace even though a fundamental force is involved. So, there could be a cause of the feeling that is not a fundamental force, perhaps something supernatural like a soul, but the only one who can make that judgement is me. I’ve concluded that it is real and that it is not physical and that I can consider it to be a reason to believe that god exists, a reason that evidenced itself.
So .
Why would we persue that which does not evidence itself?
We shouldn’t and I’m not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by sidelined, posted 10-01-2005 2:36 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by sidelined, posted 10-05-2005 3:18 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 134 of 137 (247974)
10-01-2005 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by DominionSeraph
09-30-2005 3:11 AM


It doesn't matter now
I guess I'll just type the same thing I typed to sideline...
It matters now if this life affects the next one, like whether you go to heaven or hell.
What if you only get your Defiant-class starship if you chew over 1000 pieces of gum in your previous life. I know what ifs suck but my point is that it can matter. There's really no way to know for sure so you can just assume that it doesn't matter. Now, getting a starship for chewing bubblegum is rediculous but having a good afterlife for living a good life seems plausible to me. I trust the Bible as it says that it does matter, but I believe in god in the first place...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by DominionSeraph, posted 09-30-2005 3:11 AM DominionSeraph has not replied

  
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