Gay marraige and the end of the world

No. I have always wanted kids, just like brenna was always gay., dude?I never said you were career-minded. I have no clue what you do for a living, or do I have a clue why you don't want kids.Instead of resulting to name calling,,,again,,,, why don't you just explain yourself rationally?If you can't, then maybe you shouldn't even be bothering with me. I find your attitude pretty shitty, and I see a break down in the way you behave. I am disappointed, I am starting to lose respect. But I don't hold grudges. So your free, as am I. Sounds like a bugs bunny cartoon, lol. Of course I care, haven't you been paying attention. I am trying to better myself, and fix any inequities I might have.But when people start responding like you do, then you step back and say what is the sense?YOu will teach me nothing with sarcasm and insults.I still do not see why you have to get insulted, sounds like your getting defensive from my end, oh well.

Going on vaca, be back next week, that will give me some time to think about everything.

WEll you sure made up a whole lot of stuff there, and managed to put a multitude of words in my mouth for me. Thanks.It's kind of hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone so irrational.I agree with the admin, beberry is the only one in this thread who has kept their cool, and managed to explain themselves rationally.All I feel is attacks from you, and that stems from your defensiveness towards me.You choose not to have kids, that is the fact, stop adding stuff to it it like, my marriage is better than your or whatever.Now, state exactly why you chose not to have kids.Did you ever think you chose not to have kids because of the way you consider your parewnts raised you?*warining* the above statement is not an insult, all comments from here on out, are not insults, do not take them that way.

I am not ignoring you, I have been very busy with my work. I will answer all you posts. I think you for replying and getting involved.I do like you for your mind.I do not actually care if people are gay or not. If someone is gay, does not dictate how I treat tham, I thought I made that clear.

Of course I am reading them all. I just want to give time to seriously think about these things. I want to act, instead of react to what is being said to me.I am at a real life cross road here, and I am trying to logically figure it all out. If I am going to be against gay marriage or not, then I better have a clear logical reason to think one way or another.Like I said before, I do not care if you are a chick, gay, straight or whatever. Makes no difference to me, to have these conversations. I will not talk to people differently, or treat them differently, just because they don't think the same way as me.I just appreciate being able to have htese conversations with all of you, even the angry schraf.To give you an update on where my thought process is:I have been approaching people who are against homosexuality, and taking the gay side of the arguement, and asking them to explain why its wrong.The answers I have been recieving are shallow, and only one or 2 could really explain why.Most of them are using religous reasons to reason their thoughts.
Then I ask, should we be forcing our religous beliefs on those who don't believe?#1, from a non-religous point of view. The only logical reason I can come up with for being against gay marriage, and to think that being gay is in some sort of way wrong, is that, we all are born of a mother and a father. To be gay is in some way to go against that, and is some how disrespectful to the very process that brought us into existance, and kept us here on this earth for so many years. I wish I could put that into better words.#2 Being born gay is not a proven thing yet. This would greatly affect how I feel about this. Mind you, I sit on the fence about whether people are born gay or not. Sometimes, you can just look at a person and say, "your gay". But that is judging, so I refrain from that. You can also take on a gay appearance, and anyone could act metaphorically gay or straight, and we would never really know the difference from outward appearances. Another good reason not to judge people. Some people are just "flames", and I do not think I will ever understand that.#3 People have asked me, did I choose to be straight. I say yes. Because I was raised to think that being gay is ok. My first sexual encounter was almost a gay one, and I choose not to have it.
My choice may have been based on a desire, but I also choose not to smoke pot even though I desire to. I also choose to be monogomous and not be with multiple partners, even though there may be an inward desire to do so.#4 The animal kingdom, I have been told that there are animnals who are gay. They would even mate for life. I have yet to see any links for this, but it makes no difference, because if we start basing our society on what goes on in the animal kingdom, we are in for trouble, so scratch that idea.#5 I do believe that some people are gay, not by choice, but by things that may have happened to them beyond their control. I know this as fact. I have witnessed it first hand, and it has been admitted to me by homosexual people. We are the sum of our experiences.Now from a religous stand point, there is no way you could ever say that Jesus thinks its ok. Even though people have tried in here, I will never be convinced that Jesus thinks its ok. It's one man, one woman.

quote:

---

Matthew 19
4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

---

That amoung other verses makes it pretty clear to me, how God made us to be.People have tried to use the word love as a reason to allow same sex couples marry. So I started a thread, what is love. There are few responses.I heard one definition in here of love being nothing more than an extention of our survival instincts in action. A natural chemical reaction in the brain so that we may continue to exist.If that is true, then how can a man love a man?Given the option, I have never heard someone say that they would wish to have two male parents, or two female parents over one male, and one female. We all have a natural desire to have our biological parents raise us, in a peaceful and loving manor.Just because this is not the norm, doen't make gay marriage right.
A=C B=C but B can't =C or whatever.Now the other thing that I am dealing with is that I just don't feel that it is right in my heart. I will never look at 2 guys kissing, and say "awwww how cute!". Even 2 woman kissing wouldn't sexually attract me unless I thought I could be in the middle somehow. But I also made it clear that what my flesh desires sexually is not what I think should be what marriage is based on.So why do I feel this way, if I was raised to think that homosexuality is normal? I do not have an answer, and I am truely searching for one.

Thats all well and good. They did that for a specific reason, and that was to make sure that religous leaders would not control our government.It does not mean that our own personal moral beliefs, no matter where they come from should or should not have a way into or legal system.We have a right to believe whatever we want, and we can base our morals on it. So people who cannot speak or write, should not marry?I know that last statement was rediculus, but it expresses some of the logic around here. I am trying to leave Jesus out of this one, and explain to myself my own personal feelings, and why I feel this way.I think in the great debate we will go into more detail about what Jesus would have us do. Makes no difference to me, she is sticking up for gay marriage, and we are just discussing it.

Thank you for your words.

Can you read a few of my last posts?
I have been seriously thinking about all that you said to me.About this quote. Do you think that it is fair that you place that responsibility on me?In other words you are telling me, that if I support same sex marriage, more people will come to know the Lord?I do not see how I could possibly think that way, because I am 99.99% sure that God is against it.What I am trying to define, is why I am against it in my heart, and do I have a right (or logical reason other than God) to force my moral beliefs (no matter where they come from) on the gay nation.I also wanted to say thanks beberry.

No where ever in my entire posting history have I ever said we were. Instead I have been preaching the opposite, and there is a verse to go with it. Jesus came to save the world, not judge it.But that has nothing to do with if I should support gay marriage or not. If I support it, then I have judged it ok, if I don't then I have judged it not ok, either way I have judged it.Further, we are to judge the way we expect to be judged. So having stated my sexual desires, and then explaining how I will not let them dictate my morals, or what I believe to be right, then I am being fair by expecting the same thing from homosexuals.If I sin, then I expect to be corrected in a loving manor, by being spoken to in truth and love. I also do not expect people to make pot smoking legal, so they can say they love me.So I see a failed logic in putting that responsibility of having to accept same sex marriage on me, and saying it is biblical, or even calling me a hypocrite, something I despise more than anything.Just because Jesus hung out with the sinners, doesn't mean he condoned it. He knew peoples hearts, and that is what counts, your heart, not your sexual postion.He was against all sin, and he put the people in the temple, at the top of the list, because not only where they sinners, but they were hypocrites as well. At least the sinners he hung out with, were not hypocrites, a sign of a good heart. All that info was nice, but you missed my point.
I never said homosexuals were bad parents, I know for a fact that they can make great parents.But given the option, I am sure that all people would prefer to be raised by their biological parents, under ideal conditions i.e. love and caring. Not some crazy trailer trash whore slut, who don't give a dam about her kids.

Yes, I agree with that, so the door can swing both ways.But did you read my secular reasoning for not thinking it was right? If I oppse it or not, I am still passing a judgement.I am not condenming in anyway though. I have never said you are going to hell for it, that we be beyond wrong IMO. Nation was just a small joke.
I am not afraid at all. Sometimes I would rather talk to you, than many straight people. Yea, I would like to skin myself as well, but I am just being truthful, and letting it all out. Not to be mean, but to learn the truth about myself, this situation, and life as well.If we meet each other life outside this forum, we would get along, I would make sure of that, since its always been my goal to get along with everyone.

Thats your right, and it makes me proud to say I live in a country where you can think that, way, and I can think my way.What makes me sad is when the difference of opinion goes beyond just being a difference of opinion, and name calling starts to happen.It doesn't bother me in the least that you feel that way. Instead it makes me question why I feel the way I do.I think I came up with good secular reasoning, and in our other conversation, extraordinary reasoning to think it is wrong in the eyes of God. But in this thread, I am not looking to force my Godly beliefs on anyone, or in our government.

I did not respond to you exactly, but I responded. I understand the attraction. As humans we desire many things, that could either be wrong or right. We might even be born that way, I would be willing to accept that, but it still isn't proven yet.I explained that I was born with some desires of my own.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 02-01-2006 05:27 PM

And you say your not gay? That really makes no sense to me.
I would think being a girl, you could be considered a sex object no matter who you are dating. Well then, it's not the same. I don't have to, it's america, a free thinking country. It's your right to think I am wrong.
I am not saying I am wrong or right, I was just bringing up a point, and few people here almost jumped out of their skin.Besides, if I am to leave her marriage alone, then she must leave things about me alone. I don't want her to, I want to keep being challenged. I hate it.
But if I did, then it's God's will for me to watch it. I will let God explain that one to you. Lot's of people have sex without the emotion, or negative emotion. I understand all that. I am a pothead from the 70's
Life changes, and reality sets in. And I believe your exactly where you need to be, I believe you are doing God's will, and he is speaking to you. Freinds can be anything. I always got along with girls a little better than guys. Until you marry one, then it's a whole other ball of wax, but yes, my wife is my best freind.It doesn't seem to justify gay marriage in my head though. Oh murder. Let's not go there.
It's not technology that I don't trust, I love it. It's what men do with it. Why is it, that if I don't represent one extreme, than I must be for the other?I am a middle type of person. I fall in the middle of many subjects. There has to be a happy medium. I agree with that.I fathered 3. The first is not with me, so I had 2 more. My wife had 2 when I meet her. That's the way the cookie crumbled for me.I love my kids, and they have taught me more about life than anything else.

You were not sexually attracted to her?

So what makes you gay?

quote:

---

gay Audio pronunciation of "gay" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (g)
adj. gay·er, gay·est

​

1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
4. Given to social pleasures.
5. Dissolute; licentious.

---