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Author Topic:   Is it 'boring' being God?
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 207 (286784)
02-15-2006 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Silent H
02-15-2006 6:13 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
That's a very limited case. You said "infinitely great". Define infinite and great and then present a similar scenario as above. You will find it is not consistent unless you have a very different definition of either.
Definitions:
Infinite
Great
lets say you could run infinitely fast (despite of course the impossibilities), but a friend of yours doesn't believe it, does that affect whether you can or can't?
Then why does he get mad at people when they tell him he's fat?
well at least I made my point
This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-15-2006 06:27 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 6:13 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 9:37 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 207 (286850)
02-15-2006 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Silent H
02-15-2006 9:37 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Nope, because being fast has nothing to do with being great which does entail respect, unless you just meant massive?
Is a kings greatness diminished because one of his subjects doesn't respect him? I still don't understand how that would work???
??? No, it doesn't make sense. If he can never think himself greater than he is, then what can cause him to be angry when people dismiss a certain aspect of himself? He would already understand that as well.
????? wait, what does this have to do with pride????

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 9:37 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 12:32 PM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 207 (286955)
02-15-2006 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Silent H
02-15-2006 12:32 PM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Not so that he might care or notice. However it does mean that that king's greatness is by definition not infinite.
I understand what you're saying, I'm just asking how it would make him non-infinite
You said he cannot misjudge his own greatness, how can he get angry with someone unless he feels his own greatness may actually be less than he originally thought? That's the problem with pride. It can get hurt and then one retaliates. But it can't be hurt if it is in perspective.
who said he would get angry? sorry if you understood me to say that

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 12:32 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 5:55 PM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 155 of 207 (287194)
02-16-2006 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Silent H
02-15-2006 5:55 PM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
I already explained this. You get one more time. Infinite means without bounds, all encompassing, not one thing in existence which is not contained. Great (unless you simply mean size) refers to being extremely popular, charismatic. So infinite greatness would mean their is no possible way that one could be greater. If even one person says you are not great, then by definition you are not infinitely great because you are not boundlessly popular and influential. You could be greater still if that person thought you were great and would do what you said.
actually you didn't explain how it worked, you just sayed that by definition he wouldn't be infinite.
I've never heard of great being refered to automatically as popular before. I am not talking about God being popular I am talking about God being powerful, filled with glory, that kind of great. popularity has nothing to do with Gods greatness.
You said he punished people, I assumed he was angry. In the Bible God describes himself as angry and jealous.
aaaaand? he will be angry when we disobey him, he is jealous when we worship* a peice of wood (tv, money, ...) because we should worship him. I really don't see how this pertains to your previous post though.
But it can't be hurt if it is in perspective.
And thats why God doesn't get hurt.
in this case means "give your life to"*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Silent H, posted 02-15-2006 5:55 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 4:21 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 157 of 207 (287200)
02-16-2006 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Silent H
02-16-2006 4:21 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
yes I did, you just don't seem to want to understand or are incapable of understanding. I'll stop pounding my ahead against your wall after this final blow.
whatever, its not even worth discussing
Powerful? How can a God have infinite power if a person is able to hate him and not obey him? Glory? Still not sure why that is not similar to popular, but let's say it is different.
we can disobey him because we have free will, he can stop us but he won't, its like the difference between a slave and someone who serves you because they love you. popularity has NOTHING to do with any aspect of a person, its how much you are liked. Glory is actually how amazing you are. Being glorious can help you to be popular but you can be a total moron and still be popular. popularity is opinion, glory is fact.
Wouldn't God be still more glorious if every single person loved him so much they'd obey his every command without question?
no he would not (see above), he would be happier and so would we but it would not affect his glory in the least
Why would this anger him or make him jealous if he understands that this does not affect him whatsoever? That's like you getting mad that an ant didn't do exactly what you wanted.
when we obey him we glorify him, he deserves to be glorified. Yes but God notices us more than we would notice that ant. just because we are ignorant doesn't mean he is
You just said he gets angry and jealous... that is the way I was using "hurt".
he would not get hurt directly from any insult. but he would get mad at the fact that we are lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 4:21 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 8:22 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 207 (287319)
02-16-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Silent H
02-16-2006 8:22 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
From your own words, when we obey we glorify, or give him glory. Thus when a person chooses not to obey less glory is given. That means he is NOT as glorious or glorified as he COULD be. And thus he is not infinitely glorious, or great.
hehe, sorry you misunderstood me. When we glorify him we don't suply his glory. Basically we tell him he is glorious.
yes, yes it is simple

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 8:22 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 4:55 PM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 207 (287507)
02-17-2006 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Silent H
02-16-2006 4:55 PM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
What makes him glorious? What qualities make this up? You keep shifting away from reaching a definition of what makes up this greatness of God.
whose shifting away? You hadn't actually asked up until now, you just kept saying that he wasn't infinitely great. Anyway, God's greatness is mainly: Love, Power, and Wisdom. Of course there are a bunch others but they're subcatagories.
This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-17-2006 02:51 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Silent H, posted 02-16-2006 4:55 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 4:58 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 207 (287508)
02-17-2006 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Brian
02-16-2006 6:57 PM


No, I think the question should be: what is the point in God existing?
Thats a good question. Since when you try to figure out why something "is". you go back to its begining. Since God didn't have one you can't. But it's always nice to have a perfect someone, so I would guess he makes his own purposes, Because who would be better suited?

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 Message 165 by Brian, posted 02-16-2006 6:57 PM Brian has not replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 207 (287520)
02-17-2006 5:15 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Silent H
02-17-2006 4:58 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Actually I did ask you to define what you meant, and you handed me links with no selection of what your were referring to. So I suggested which I was running with and you did not deny it, you simply shifted to a new word.
you asked me to define the word great, not what Gods greatness contained
1) Love: He is angry and jealous by his own words and says things are hated by him and should be hated by us.
being jealous and angry when you have a right to is not a sin
2) Power: By your own admission he has ceded power to individuals. That he might be capable of infinite power does not change the fact that he does not actually have it.
just because he gives power to people does not mean that he does not have infinite power himself
Can God create a stone so great he cannot lift it? The answer is YES, as he has created free will which are ideas he cannot even touch, other than to eliminate.
you cannot compare two ininites. can't and won't, there is a difference.
But if that is not enough there is the story in the Bible where he wrestles a human and almost loses. He is eventually forced to cheat to win
how did he cheat. just because you wrestle with someone doesn't mean you use all your strength
3) Wisdom: The guy creates a world and inhabitants which continually piss him off, and does not even have the foresight of warning them against a snake who could trick them. I don't see much wisdom. A person who is frustrated by what he himself does or creates, has not acted wisely.
creating something that is imperfect and creating something that can choose to be imperfect are two very, very different things.
as you can he is infinite in all these areas, like I said

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 4:58 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:44 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 207 (287521)
02-17-2006 5:17 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Silent H
02-17-2006 5:00 AM


Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
Heheheh... yep. If its not circular logic, then its pretzel logic.
First of all God is infinite in his wisdom, so who better to chose right from wrong. second, what God is using works when actually done. Perfect logic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:00 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:46 AM dorkfrommarn has replied
 Message 179 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 8:29 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 207 (287535)
02-17-2006 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by Silent H
02-17-2006 5:44 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
Unfortunately humans have no right to be jealous and angry? See this is what I don't get. God who is supposed to be infinitely powerful gets to be petty about things which must be infinitely inconsequential to him, yet finite beings are not allowed to be frustrated by events and beings which directly effect their very lives.
I said WHEN, you have that right you can do it. Not, "Only God can do it and whenever he wants"
In any case this changes nothing. The point was that his love is not infinite. If his love is not infinite then his greatness (which uses love as one of the criteria) cannot be infinite.
actually this does change it, you said that he got angry, I said sometime people have a right to. I countered it.
Yes, by definition, if he gives power to another that he himself cannot control then his power is no longer infinite.
cannot, will not. He will not interfere with someone else's power if he bestowed it and they are keeping their part of the bargian if there was one.
You don't read your own Bible? It says that he was not able to beat the man using his strength and so magically dislocated his hip bone in order to win. Don't know about you, but that is cheating where I come from. If he could have beat the man using his strength alone, why did he have to resort to magic?
notice it says who he was a man here, and I don't see how using "magic" is cheating, especially when there are no rules.
I have no idea what this meant.
you cannot compare two infinites
True, though they share one similarity... not very wise.
could you actually offer a legitimate argument instead of just contradicting me?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:44 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 7:44 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 207 (287536)
02-17-2006 6:38 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Silent H
02-17-2006 5:46 AM


Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
I'd like less cheese on that pretzel.
are you just gonna keep contradicting me and stop debating?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 5:46 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 7:50 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 180 of 207 (287556)
02-17-2006 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Silent H
02-17-2006 7:50 AM


Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
When will you deliver a solid argument that is not a shift in words, or to another subject?
I know exactly what you think, I'm asking you to actually point out the flaws in my logic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 7:50 AM Silent H has not replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 207 (287557)
02-17-2006 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Silent H
02-17-2006 7:44 AM


Re: God? Are You Bored, yet? No.
You seem to have missed the point I was making. How and when does an infinite being ever have the right to get jealous and angry? Other than of course the ability to grant themself the right to be angry.
like when we sin, God has a right then to get angry, It's called righteous anger. So do we in similar circumsances.
Love thy enemy, forgive those that trespass against you, turn the other cheek. Apparently whether one has a right to be angry, does not mean that one should exercise that right.
yes you are right. In a lot of cases it is not helpful to get angry.
Once again you miss the point. Whether he cannot or will not makes no difference. You can end your infinite qualities in practice. Maybe what you mean is that he was once infinite and has the potential for infinite greatness?
yes what he will do is limited, so what? would you like a God that lied, cheated and so on? This however does not affect how large his greatness actually is, it just affects how he uses it. And he still has potential for "willful" greatness
could God make a rock so bit he couldn't lift it?
you cannot compare two infinites.
I said it wasn't wise, and you explained how two things are different. They may be different regarding some qualities but not with regards to wisdom. If one is going to be upset and angry and jealous creating a world that is not perfect is as unwise as creating a world which has the ability to be imperfect.
I might add that if he is infinitely wise he WOULD KNOW IN ADVANCE this world would end in imperfection, and thus chose to create a world which was imperfect.
tell me this. how could he create something that would love him truly (with free will) and be perfect in whole. He would have to create something the exact way he did us to even get love, and create robots for (moral) perfection. It is not his fault, but ours. Not his lack of wisdom, but ours. He had NOTHING to do with

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 7:44 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Silent H, posted 02-17-2006 10:15 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
dorkfrommarn
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 207 (287558)
02-17-2006 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by Chiroptera
02-17-2006 8:29 AM


Re: This might be slightly off-topic but....
Well, the people who would actually be affected by the decisions as to right or wrong would be better.
NO!! have you seen how stupid people are??? If we chose what was right and wrong this world would be ten times worse than it already is!
I hear that a lot from people whose plans end up not working at all. What kind of dumbass would institute a plan that needs to be done perfectly knowing bloody well that the plan simply is not going to be followed as perfectly as necessary?
Thats why Jesus was sent. God knew that system wouldn't work so he made the modification we have now
This message has been edited by dorkfrommarn, 02-17-2006 08:44 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 8:29 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Chiroptera, posted 02-17-2006 8:45 AM dorkfrommarn has replied

  
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