Is it 'boring' being God?

God did NOT know for sure IF Christ would go through with the crucifixion.If free-will exists how could He ?Free will: the ability to change one's mind at will.Christ was paying for all sins ever committed, fulfilling every O.T. type when an innocent animal was sacrificed for payment. We admire God because the atonement benefits us at the expense of an innocent Person.Jesus could have ordered angels to come and take Him off of the cross. His faith wavered for only a moment "My God My God why hast thou forsaken Me ?" Then it returned "It is finished." Genesis 22:12

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And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.... And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.Abraham had the knife in hand ready to slay Isaac. THEN God stopped him. This Genesis 22 drama was a type of what God would do to His Son thousands of years later on the same spot (Mt. Moriah).Read the caps = God did not know until that moment if Abraham feared Him, that is would go thru with the sacrifice. Genesis 22:7,8

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And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

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And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offeringUnlike Abraham, there was no one to stop God's hand at the crucifixion except Christ Himself. He doesn't know FOR SURE when a person has the freedom to do otherwise. He took Abraham to the brink.The point is God's omniscience is a function of His omnipotence. This means what He doesn't know His power can arrange circumstances to find out.What God doesn't know:If we will trust His Son while having the freedom to do otherwise. When we trust Jesus this is called the gospel - the good news that God will accept faith in place of Mosaic works.God can predict, and be ready in either case, but He does not know for sure because free will exists.RayThis message has been edited by Herepton, 01-12-2006 08:56 PM

Thats the risk He took.Einstein was wrong; God does play dice. God takes the same risk with us: will we come through for Him and place our trust in Jesus when we have the freedom to do otherwise ?Many ignorant persons in Christendom THINK Satan was happy with the crucifixion. These people could not be anymore wrong.Two things and only two things were happening the night before Jesus was crucified.Biblical theists are dualists, that is we know there are two and only two forces that control this world. Satan did everything possible to prevent the crucifixion. He decided the best way to prevent the event from transpiring was to have Jesus tucked away in a jail cell waiting for the slow wheels of justice to run their course. If Satan could at least delay the crucifixion from occurring on Passover then he will have ruined God's O.T. typology.But the other force at work was God. Satan with all his power must have been awestruck to see Jesus have 3 trials in one night. Paul sat in jail for how many years waiting for one trial ?We know Jesus was willingly going to suffer the wrath of God for sins. The only thing that could prevent this from happening was Him. In the O.T. the Burnt Offering was a free will offering. The offerer had to do it willingly.As God did not know if Abraham feared Him until he held the knife ready to kill Isaac - the same, that is God DID NOT KNOW FOR SURE if Jesus would actually go through with the crucifixion until He did. This is WHY in the Garden Jesus was under such heavy pressure His vessels broke and He sweated blood. He knew God was going to treat Him like the lamb on the day of atonement in the wilderness. He knew God was going to pour out His wrath upon Him for all sins.God had faith Jesus would go through with it. He hoped He would, BUT HE DID NOT KNOW FOR SURE UNTIL JESUS ACTUALLY DID because free will exists: the ability to change one's mind at will.Ray

The God of the Bible reveals Himself omniscient with an asterisk. His omniscience is delayed in one certain well defined area.If you assert the God of the Bible omniscient minus the asterisk then you have no source for your beliefs about God and are engaged in a subjective opinion.Read Genesis 22:12.It plainly says God did not know something until a certain moment had arrived. Abraham was at least 120 years old in the passage. Imagine that, being a 120 year old Patriarch and God admitting He did not know something about you ?My point stands: God's omniscience is delayed in a certain area until His omnipotence can arrange circumstances to find out.Its not boring being God.RayThis message has been edited by Herepton, 01-13-2006 12:05 PM

Genesis 22:12

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And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

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Deuteronomy 8:2

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And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, TO KNOW what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

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John 21

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Three times Jesus asks Peter IF he loves Him ?Jesus asked because He did not know for sure. The question would be answered by the decisions Peter would make in life, that is if he would follow Jesus to martyrdom.IF you want to argue God omniscient THEN show me your source for information about God and make your case.The Bible says God's omniscience is imperfect in ONE small area as synonymously seen above.God is omniscient BUT it is delayed until His omnipotence can arrange circumstances to find out.When God said to Abraham "now I know" he was at least 120 years old.Calvinists: you are refuted.Ray

This was your reply to my claim that God did not know FOR SURE if Christ would go through with the crucifixion.Free will defined: the ability to change ones mind at will; the freedom to do otherwise.Because free will self evidently exists = God did not know FOR SURE. I have already supplied Biblical references completely ignored by the Calvinian mindset. Agreed. It was prophesied. Your error is confusing prophecy with done deed. When these prophecies were uttered the possibility of them NOT coming to pass is the risk factor in prophecy WHEN the utterance depends upon the free will of a human being.The point is God did not know FOR SURE. There is no mutilation. Suffering Messianic psalms are a perfect shadow/fit cast by the substance of Christ. I have no idea what you are talking about.IF Jesus went through with the crucifixion THEN God promised to raise Him after 72 hours elapsed. Jesus had faith the Father would keep His promise, however, Jesus did not know FOR SURE until God actually did. Even God has the freedom to do otherwise - obviously.This is the risk of faith.The Bible was written to instill within mankind that whatever God says - good or bad: will come to pass = a record showing that God is trustworthy: a basis to have faith = the only thing God wants = the only thing God does not know for sure: if a person with the freedom to do otherwise will have faith in a promise of His that fits their circumstance. He had faith that it was temporary: God kept His word to Him. The point for us is that God will treat us the same IF we trust Him like Christ did.How could you insult Christ's sacrifice since it could benefit you (receive forgiveness of sins)? You know the meaning of the atonement was for this purpose. Having a careless attitude about sins being forgiven shows a frightening condition, unless I am misunderstanding you ? I have defined the minute exception to perfect omniscience via the Bible = you have ignored. This means you have no source for the above belief and it is entirely subjective.The Bible says God's omniscience is DELAYED in one small area, that is when a free will being is facing a "vertical delta" = to trust/fear/love God or not.In this precise context He does not know FOR SURE UNTIL the being does whatever they do. God can predict and be correct but it doesn't matter since the person facing the choice can go either direction. God is prepared in either case but He does not know for sure.Genesis 22:12 says it bluntly.Abraham could have chosen to disobey God. He chose to trust God. Hebrews 11 tells us way after the fact what Abraham was thinking; that he thought God WOULD raise Isaac from the dead. This is ALSO typology. Christ thought the same. God kept His word and raised the Son. In Abraham's case God was convinced that after taking the knife he would go through with it, instead, God ended the horrific test with an imperative command to not harm the boy.Genesis 22 IS in its entirety: forerunner typological drama of what God would do thousands of years later, only there would be no one to make that imperative command. Atheism and its utter senselessness. Atheism making total sense.The only error here is the evasion of Genesis 22:12.God meant what He said when He said "NOW I KNOW...thou fearest God"Fear is a synonym for trust and love.Genesis 22:12 and other passages substantiate the asterisk next to God's omniscience. Now its a farce. WHY ?Ray

You are describing what is known as confusion.The Bible tells us the source of confusion is not God. This leaves only Satan as the source.The Bible also tells us that IF we apprehend Christ - He will shield our minds from the Adversary and his confusion.Ray