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Author Topic:   Is it 'boring' being God?
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 1 of 207 (278544)
01-12-2006 9:08 PM


I thought about this while composing a reply to Jar about God's omniscience and the Fall. Now, with God being omniscient, God would know beforehand that Adam and Eve would disobey His command not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, so their 'Fall' would not have been a surprise to God.
Moving to the New Testament and Jesus' death and resurrection. Now, I have heard many Christians claim that Jesus didn't know that He would come back to life three days after He 'died'. If we ignore this argument for now and concentrate on what Christians believe is the ultimate exampe of love, namely, sending your only son to die so that others have a path to salvation. How can we really admire God for this when he MUST have known that Jesus' 'death' was only a temporary inconvenience?
With these two examples in mind, how 'boring' an existence is it for God? He knows everything, can do anthing He wants, there are no surprises at all, and He knows that He is never going to die, it must be a nightmare.
This condition that God finds Himself in, could it make him angry, or affect His 'mental' condition? If God resents his omniscience and omnipotence, could this explain why He appears to be a blood thirsty barbarian in the Old Testament? Think about some of the stories in the Old Testament where God either slaughters thousands himself, or commands others to do His dirty work for Him, do these actions appear to be the work of a rational 'mind'?
Topic then, would it be a boring existence being a God, given that you know everything that is going to happen, and you are capable of doing anything that you want to.
Brian.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 01-12-2006 10:22 PM Brian has replied
 Message 4 by ramoss, posted 01-12-2006 10:39 PM Brian has replied
 Message 5 by jar, posted 01-12-2006 10:47 PM Brian has replied
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 23 of 207 (278752)
01-13-2006 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Cold Foreign Object
01-12-2006 11:51 PM


Holy Ghost Writer
God did NOT know for sure IF Christ would go through with the crucifixion.
Where are you getting this from? This would mean that either God is less than perfect, or He hasn't read His own book.
According to many Christians, Jesus' crucifixion is foretold in the O.T. Remember how they misunderstand the suffering servant songs? They mutilate them to try and fit Jesus' life.
If that isn't obvious enough, what about the N.T. texts?
Matt. 26:32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee."
Matt. 27:40 and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"
Matt. 27:63 "Sir," they said, "we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise again.'
Mark 8:31 He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
Mark 9:31 because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise."
How can you say God (and Jesus) didn’t know that Jesus was only going to be dead for three days? Did God not bother to read His own book, did He have a ghost writer, or a Holy Ghost write?
As I said, Jesus’ sacrifice is hardly awe inspiring. He died, so what, He knew it was only temporary.
If free-will exists how could He ?
Free will: the ability to change one's mind at will.
Free will does not negate omniscience. He could just be getting His kicks by watching us thinking that we have a choice. If God knows everything, then He knows what your ultimate choice will be.
Christ was paying for all sins ever committed, fulfilling every O.T. type when an innocent animal was sacrificed for payment.
But, these animal sacrifices were real sacrifices, not like the pantomime that Jesus acted out. The owners didn't get their live animal back three days later, but God knew His son would be back with Him three days later. What a crappy effort! Roman Catholics make far bigger sacrifices at lent, they give up something for 40 days, God didn't even manage for 3 whole days!
Abraham had the knife in hand ready to slay Isaac. THEN God stopped him.
Yes, God stopped Abraham not because He didn’t know if Abraham would kill Isaac or not, He let it go that far for Abraham’s sake. It was to show Abraham how much he loved God, how much he trusted God. Abraham was allowed to go this far to demonstrate to Abraham that his faith was strong.
This Genesis 22 drama was a type of what God would do to His Son thousands of years later on the same spot (Mt. Moriah).
Oh it was a drama alright, a complete farce.
What God doesn't know:
Thus, the God of the Bible is not the ultimate being. That sure explains a lot.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-12-2006 11:51 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 01-14-2006 3:29 PM Brian has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 24 of 207 (278754)
01-13-2006 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Buzsaw
01-12-2006 10:22 PM


Busy God?
It may not have been a surprise, but he also knew that the ultimate achievement by it would be the demise of the rebel of the universe, Satan, the devil, the evil one who inspired the serpent to cause the fall of man.
But, this then brings up so many other questions.
Did God create in order to try and entertain Himself?
Why did God create Satan?
Why did God create the circumstances of the Fall?
Why did God create humans when He knows many will refuse to acknowledge His son's sacrifice, thus He created them in the knowledge that they are eternally damned?
Take me as an example, I didn't ask to be created, if I hadn't been created then obviously I wouldn't exist and I wouldn't be aware of anything. But, unless something extremely unlikely happens, I apparently will be condemned to Hell for all eternity! Why would God create me when he knows that I will never take Jesus' resurrection seriously?
Is this all just a game to Him?
Don't forget that this true god, Jehovah is god of the universe, so immense that it's immensity cannot be comprehended by humans. This tiny speck, planet earth in a larger speck, the Milky Way galexy, one of countless billions of galexies is just one teeny bit of what God has to keep him occupied, busy and pleased.Add to that that he's likely been creating, changing and managing things in his universe forever
How can God be kept busy, when He can do anything He wants with a single thought?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Buzsaw, posted 01-12-2006 10:22 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 01-13-2006 7:52 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 25 of 207 (278755)
01-13-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by robinrohan
01-12-2006 9:32 PM


God's game
God created the universe out of boredom
Makes more sense than creating it from nothing!
and then created people with free will, thus giving up omniscience.
I don't see the connection, why would free will lead to God losing His omniscience?
Also, can God be God if He isn't omniscient?
Now he's entertained.
He would still be entertained if He kept His omniscience. Imagine how entertaining it would be to watch all the different fundy groups claiming that they have the Truth and everyone else is condemned, when you are the only one who knows the Truth.
How amusing would it be to appear to a Christian in a vision and metamorphosise into Ganesh before their very eyes, declaring that Jesus was an avatar of Krishna!
Life is a game.
It certainly is.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by robinrohan, posted 01-12-2006 9:32 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 5:36 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 26 of 207 (278758)
01-13-2006 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ramoss
01-12-2006 10:39 PM


Nightmares again!
What a curse that is.
You know, for a lot of years I experienced long periods of very realistic nightmares, they only happen occasionally now, but I can just guess what the next one will be about! Thanks very much.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ramoss, posted 01-12-2006 10:39 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 27 of 207 (278760)
01-13-2006 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
01-12-2006 10:47 PM


Re: If GOD is as you describe, yes, very, very boring.
So where shall we go from here?
Let's all pity God?
Seriously though, what other characteristics, apart from omniscience, omnipotence and immortality, can we use to define God?
It does sound like a nightmare, and perhaps everything in the universe is designed to try and alleviate God's boredom. Even although God knows everything, perhaps he gets some sort of pleasure out of watching things enfold? It certainly isn't an existence that I envy. Maybe Buddhists have the right idea, they see becoming a god as lower than becoming a human, because, since everything is impermanent, whe a god loses its power the resultant pain and sorrow is excruciating.
Brian.

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 Message 5 by jar, posted 01-12-2006 10:47 PM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 30 of 207 (278775)
01-13-2006 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 5:36 PM


Re: God's game
God doesn't know which way you will choose, because you have free will.
No, He will know which way you will choose because He knows everything. You come to the fork in the road, you don't know which way you will go, but God knws which way you are going to choose long before you do. If He doesn't know which way you will choose, then He isn't omniscient, thus He isn't God.
Brian.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 5:36 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 32 of 207 (278779)
01-13-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-13-2006 6:39 PM


Re: God's game
So, there is a possibility, IYO, that the Supreme Being is not omniscient?
I'm thinking back to my church days when we were told that God was the perfect being. If He is the perfect being, then perfect knowledge would be a given.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:52 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 36 of 207 (278785)
01-13-2006 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:04 PM


Re: God's game
He gave up His only begotten Son.
?
What do you mean?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:04 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:32 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 37 of 207 (278787)
01-13-2006 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
01-13-2006 6:52 PM


Re: God's game
Let me try an analogy. As you know, I'm a shooter. I have been known to carry firearms (with license of course where required), and so have the capability of using those firearms. Yet I don't use them.
But, this isn't an inherent feature.
Knowing everything is part of being God.
I see what you are getting at, and it would solve the 'problem', but if omniscience is an inherent feature of God then I am not sure if He has a choice whether He can not know something.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 7:27 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 40 of 207 (278795)
01-13-2006 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:32 PM


Re: God's game
If I knew I wouldn't be asking.
I really do not see the connection, can you expand please?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:32 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:38 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 42 of 207 (278802)
01-13-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:38 PM


Re: God's game
Psalm 22?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:38 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 56 of 207 (278880)
01-14-2006 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
01-13-2006 7:27 PM


Re: God's game
Ah, but I do not pretend that I can so limit what GOD can and cannot do.
Or are you pretending that you cannot limit what God can and cannot do?
But, that's the beauty of creating a fitcional chratacter, you can give it whatever attributes you want. People did it thousands of years ago, and many do it today.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 7:27 PM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 57 of 207 (278881)
01-14-2006 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
01-13-2006 8:16 PM


Jesus died, so what?
Answer: Jesus lived as a man while on earth, not as God.
Albeit a man who could, turn water into wine, walk on water, bring people back to life, cure the blind, cure the lame, cure lepers, exorcise demons, resist the opposite sex (or even the same sex), etc.
Jesus lived as a man who knew he was going to die and then rise three days later.
Hardly a big deal was it?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 01-13-2006 8:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 01-14-2006 10:42 AM Brian has replied
 Message 63 by jar, posted 01-14-2006 11:02 AM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4990 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 58 of 207 (278884)
01-14-2006 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 11:59 PM


Re: God's game
Hi Robin,
I am having real problems following your argument here, and you are normally very easy to read. Maybe too cryptic for me as well.
But,
God became human.
But, the Father didn't become human, nor did the Holy Ghost, so I really do not get your point here.
That is the Christian message.
It is part of it yes.
When one becomes human, you give up some stuff, such as omniscience.
A lot taken for granted there mate. Do you know anyone who has 'become human'? Did they tell you that they gave up their omniscience?
Did Jesus give up His ability to read as well?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 11:59 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
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