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Author Topic:   Is it 'boring' being God?
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 207 (278777)
01-13-2006 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Brian
01-13-2006 6:36 PM


Re: God's game
If He doesn't know which way you will choose, then He isn't omniscient, thus He isn't God.
That's only true under the limited scenario you outlined in your OP.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 6:36 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 6:44 PM jar has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 32 of 207 (278779)
01-13-2006 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
01-13-2006 6:39 PM


Re: God's game
So, there is a possibility, IYO, that the Supreme Being is not omniscient?
I'm thinking back to my church days when we were told that God was the perfect being. If He is the perfect being, then perfect knowledge would be a given.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:52 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 207 (278780)
01-13-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Brian
01-13-2006 6:44 PM


Re: God's game
Let me try an analogy. As you know, I'm a shooter. I have been known to carry firearms (with license of course where required), and so have the capability of using those firearms. Yet I don't use them.
Having a capability does not always mean one uses that capability.
While there may be valid arguments about whether or not humans have free will, I cannot imagine anything that might be a GOD that would not have free will.
GOD may well have the ability to know all that has happened, and all that will happen, but that does not mean GOD knows all that will happen.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 6:44 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:24 PM jar has replied

  
Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3077 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 34 of 207 (278781)
01-13-2006 7:00 PM


Omniscience: whats your source ?
Genesis 22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: FOR NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Deuteronomy 8:2
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, TO KNOW what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
John 21
Three times Jesus asks Peter IF he loves Him ?
Jesus asked because He did not know for sure. The question would be answered by the decisions Peter would make in life, that is if he would follow Jesus to martyrdom.
IF you want to argue God omniscient THEN show me your source for information about God and make your case.
The Bible says God's omniscience is imperfect in ONE small area as synonymously seen above.
God is omniscient BUT it is delayed until His omnipotence can arrange circumstances to find out.
When God said to Abraham "now I know" he was at least 120 years old.
Calvinists: you are refuted.
Ray

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 207 (278783)
01-13-2006 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
01-13-2006 6:12 PM


Re: God's game
He gave up his omniscience, just as He gave up His only begotten Son.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 01-13-2006 6:12 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:20 PM robinrohan has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 36 of 207 (278785)
01-13-2006 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:04 PM


Re: God's game
He gave up His only begotten Son.
?
What do you mean?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:04 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:32 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 37 of 207 (278787)
01-13-2006 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by jar
01-13-2006 6:52 PM


Re: God's game
Let me try an analogy. As you know, I'm a shooter. I have been known to carry firearms (with license of course where required), and so have the capability of using those firearms. Yet I don't use them.
But, this isn't an inherent feature.
Knowing everything is part of being God.
I see what you are getting at, and it would solve the 'problem', but if omniscience is an inherent feature of God then I am not sure if He has a choice whether He can not know something.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 6:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 01-13-2006 7:27 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 207 (278788)
01-13-2006 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Brian
01-13-2006 7:24 PM


Re: God's game
I am not sure if He has a choice whether He can not know something.
Ah, but I do not pretend that I can so limit what GOD can and cannot do.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:24 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Brian, posted 01-14-2006 6:52 AM jar has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 207 (278794)
01-13-2006 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Brian
01-13-2006 7:20 PM


Re: God's game
You know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:20 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:37 PM robinrohan has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 40 of 207 (278795)
01-13-2006 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:32 PM


Re: God's game
If I knew I wouldn't be asking.
I really do not see the connection, can you expand please?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:32 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:38 PM Brian has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 207 (278797)
01-13-2006 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Brian
01-13-2006 7:37 PM


Re: God's game
"Why have you forsaken me?"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:37 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:43 PM robinrohan has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4989 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 42 of 207 (278802)
01-13-2006 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 7:38 PM


Re: God's game
Psalm 22?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 7:38 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 8:10 PM Brian has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 207 (278808)
01-13-2006 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Brian
01-13-2006 5:19 PM


Re: Busy God?
Brian writes:
Did God create in order to try and entertain Himself?
According to the scriptures, we are created in his image, meaning I would suppose, that our minds have some of the traits of his mind. We humans in our realm have aspirations about our future. We find pleasure in building our homes, decorating our homes and gardens, making things, taking a walk, communicating with one another, worshipping, smelling a rose, observing the beauty of gold, gems, animals, mountains, et al. I could go on, but you get the picture.
Now, multiply the pleasure, satisfaction, achievement, energy and all the rest that motivates, inspires and blesses us by a factor greater than our imaginations can fathom. That's how fulfilled God is sure to be as owner and manager of the entire universe.
Add to the above that God has countless creatures out there, some directly connected to his presence; some moving to and from his presence, fulling all the duties he chooses for them to do, et al.
He, being the majesty of the universe also receives worship and praise from all conforming intelligent creatures. There are hints in the Bible that even the lesser creatures as well as plants have some kind of worshipping energy connected with the creator of them.
Judging from the antics and appearance of animals as well as the fact that humans are created with humor and having the desire and ability to laugh, we know that God has a sense of humor. The Bible indicates such, including that God laughs.
Brian writes:
Why did God create Satan?
He not only created Satan, but he created all the fallen angels the beings many consider to be the demons of Satan of which the Bible speaks, both OT and NT. The OT refers to them as evil spirits. When he created all the angels, yes, he knew some would fall. But he knew also that most would not fall. He created them, like us, in that they had free will. With free will comes the ability to rebel an/or disobey. Thus, evil, but God always eventually uses the evil to effect ultimate good. He used the evil of Nazism to drive the European Jews to where he wanted them, back to Israel to prepare for the 2nd advent of Jesus, messiah and coming king for the kingdom of God on earth.
Brian writes:
Why did God create humans when He knows many will refuse to acknowledge His son's sacrifice, thus He created them in the knowledge that they are eternally damned?
Like the angels, God gave us free will, knowing some would reject salvation to be damned, according to Jesus and the apostles. (The demons/evil angels will be damned.) Like the angels, some will conform to and bless God. Christian who receive Jesus, i.e. his spirit which is the Holy Spirit, become born of God spiritually and become his children who then can call and should call him "father." He takes great pleasure in the prayers of his children and wants fellowship with them/us. We in turn are blessed as we pray to God through Jesus/lord/messiah/intercessor/priest.
More later.

Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 5:19 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 207 (278817)
01-13-2006 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Brian
01-13-2006 7:43 PM


Re: God's game
Psalm 22?
Ransomed!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Brian, posted 01-13-2006 7:43 PM Brian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 01-13-2006 8:16 PM robinrohan has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 45 of 207 (278819)
01-13-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by robinrohan
01-13-2006 8:10 PM


Re: God's game
Let me guess. You really do think God gave up his omniscience and that Jesus' cry "Why have you forsaken me?" shows that?
Answer: Jesus lived as a man while on earth, not as God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 8:10 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by robinrohan, posted 01-13-2006 8:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 57 by Brian, posted 01-14-2006 7:01 AM Faith has replied

  
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