Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

Christianity was one of the many tools Hitler used to further his plans. I may be an unpleasant reality.... but it is a fact.

You just don't know if I am truely a Christian or not.Sure I do. I merely ask you. If you say that you are then I know that you are, until you choose to tell me different.It's actually very simple.

I'll agree not to hold Christianity responsible for everything bad that you do so long as you don't try to credit Christianity with everything you do that's good.

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom of heaven, but only the person who keeps doing the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name, drove out demons in your name, and performed many miracles in your name, didn't we?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'Away from me you evildoers; I never knew you!'"If Jesus says this about people who at one point in their lives have great enough faith to do miracles 'in His name' and cast out demons, then surely many who think they are "Christians" are not really His true followers. Only the person who keeps doing the will of the Father is a true Christian.

The Bible is the easiest book in the world to understand. A little child can understand it. It is only the impure motives of the heart and the false doctrines of men that get in the way of a true understanding of the Word and what it means to be a "true follower" worshiping in Spirit and in Truth.

If that's the criterion, your ranks are thinning rapidly, and there aren't enough true Christians in the world to matter.

I responded with a short list of a few barbarous acts that were done by Christianity.* when the conquistadors arrived in South America they burned all of the religious tracts they found and outlawed the practice of any religion except Christianity.
* North American Indian children were forced from their homes, their clothing changed, hair cut, language forbidden and the Christian religion forced upon them.
* Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under the Edict of Expulsion. They were barred from the Isles until the mid 1600s.
* in the 1400s all Jews were expelled from Spain. Interestingly, it was the Islamic world that opened its arms to them, even sending fleets of ships to take them back to the Islamic world and providing them with homes and opportunity.
* Jews were required throughout Europe to live in Ghettos, and were restricted in what positions or emplyment they could hold.
* throughout the Christian World, witches were killed, usually through burning.
* as far back as 1215, the Fourth Council of the Lateran required that Jews wear identifying marks or clothes.
* the Crusades which were attempts to redirect internal violence towards a non-aggressive outside neighbor.
* a continuing practice of outlawing other religions such as the banning of the old ways that happened in Hawaii.
* the Wars of the Reformation including the Peasants War which began in 1524 and on through the Thirty Years War.
* the four Great Inquistions beginning with the Middle Ages Inquisition of 1184.I pointed out that Christianity continues today to be intolerant, for example Faiths quote about Islam. It is also oppressive, supporting denying human rights to homosexuals.I ended the message with the Confession.

Nobody knows what the rules on being a Scotsman are, except the person who is committing the fallacy, and he defines those rules as it is convenient to whatever point he is making.

But it's not clear just exactly what a Christian is.I mean to me it is, but the definition is so broad.Which is why it is fallacious to proclaim that no true Christian would do some thing.

Christianity and race differ massively in that Christianity is a choice, and its far more acceptable to criticize someone based on their choices rather than criticizing someone because of something they have no choice about.

Christianity cannot do those things, it is not a person.Yeah, yeah, yeah. Total cop-out.

Christianity is not some abstract entity. Christianity is the people that it is composed of. For without the people, there would be no Christianity.

Who's Christianity?Germany's.

Speer became rather adgitated and said (to the affect) "No, no you must not think that. He was *not* a monster! He was a human being like you and I. We all have within us the capability to do those things. If we think he was somehow special and not human we forget to be on guard."

And you most certainly are responsible for the continued oppression being done by Christians today.

I think the point in this thread is that we can only judge a group by the actions of it's members and the organizations that claim to represent it. Christianity is a group that includes both bad people like Pat Robertson and good people like Mother Theresa. I think it is fair to say that Christianity is like any other group; it has good and it has bad.

I think Jar's suggestion is a good one for Christians: If those who claim to be Christians are doing things you think are wrong or non-christian, then make it your duty to speak out against them. If you believe they are no true Christians; then speak out about why you think they are not following the teachings of christ.

Pat Roberston for example is a bad person who claims to be a christian. I think it's better to speak out against him, than to say "It doesn't matter, he's not a true christian"

From a Christian standpoint, individually, can we say that all humans are Christians? Can we say that all Christians are Christ like?

I am saying that being a Scotsman is characterised as being something more than coming from Scotland