Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

It seems to me that the whole idea behind the "No true Christian would do that" statement is to promulgate the stance that a true christian is the paragon of virtue, one who can do no wrong. If this is the case then , as you yourself have said RR, Christ was, arguably, the only true christian, and Christianity lived and died with him; since it is clear that no one is that virtuous, as such there can, by inference, be no such a thing as a christian.I'm sure almost every christian on here would argue against what i've just said, however, you can't have it both ways.Whether or not Christianity is to blame for certain atrocities is, I see, debatable. Whether or not christians are to blame for these atrocities is, however, not.What of those actions sanctioned by the Church; and those which were not only sanctioned, but resulted in the spread and advancement of Christianity, at the expense of others. Is she still not to be blamed for these?

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

That's just it RR, you're making my point for me.Yes, if he goes against the rules he agreed to follow then he would be solely responsible for his actions, as an individual.But what if the army sanctioned his actions? What if they expected it from him, and encouraged it? What then? Would the army still not be responsible for the consequences of such?You see, many atrocities, were commited in the name of Christianity, and were sanctioned by the Church.
And, one cannot use the excuse that the Church is not Christianity, because, in a sense, it is.For it is the Church who primarily brings Christianity to the people, and shapes their view of it.Christianity is not some abstract entity. Christianity is the people that it is composed of. For without the people, there would be no Christianity.

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

If there were no people who believed, the words and teachings of Jesus would have fallen by the wayside; the Gospels would not have been written; we wouldn't even have heard the name, Jesus.As i've heard many times on this forum, its about faith and belief; and i agree with that, for what would it be if there was no one to believe, and to be faithful.To be honest i don't really see the workings of Hitler as a smear on Christianity. While some christians justified it, there were also those that denounced it. The same goes for racism and apartheid.What i regard as the responsibility of Christianity, are those atrocities that were done "in the name of God", and were not denounced until it was too late; and there are many of those.

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

If it were so simple, RR, i'd be inclined to agree with you; but it isn't.Can you tell someone who vehemently believes that they are acting in a Christian way, that they are not true christians?
Especially when their actions have been justified and sanctioned by the Church, and even at times by their interpretation of scripture (something which has been done for many things).This message has been edited by U can call me Cookie, 02-21-2006 01:55 PM

Race is in itself not very well defined, and so does not give your argument any more merit..
To the early European explorers, even the "caucasoid" peoples of North Africa were regarded as "Black".But your analogy does raise the issue of Identity. Is it appropriate for one to dismiss the Identity of another, simply because they do not agree with said Identity?The issue, as Modulous and others have pointed out, lies in the definition of Christianity. Without an indisputable definition of Christianity, and it seems there can be no indisputable definition, the "No True Christian" Defense cannot be valid.

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine

Ever hear of the one-drop rule, RR?Can you be sure that there is no African ancestry somewhere in your family's history?And well, technically, we're all descended from the peoples of Africa anyway, so we're all "Black".

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"The good Christian should beware the mathematician and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of hell." - St. Augustine