Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

Christianity was one of the many tools Hitler used to further his plans. It may be an unpleasant reality.... but it is a fact.This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 02-19-2006 09:16 PM

The fact that the nazis were mostly christian or from christian backgrounds doesn't mean christianity is bad, just like the fact that MLK Jr was a christian doesn't mean christianity is good.The hitler example only shows that evil can be done by christians or those who profess to be christians. It also shows that chrisianity can be used as a tool for evil. It does not mean that Christianity is inherently evil.As you have said, Christianity is not a person. We can only judge it based on the actions of those people and organizations that claim to represent it.

Albert Speer is a fascinating and very intelligent guy. I suggest anyone who is interested check out his book. I think it's called "inside the third reich". It shows how anyone can get caught up in something without realizing what is really happening.

Ned, hopefully this is somewhat still on topic.One of the things that really comes across in Speer's book is the popularity of Hitler in the 30s in Germany. People always think of hitler as this evil monster, but he was at one time seen as one of the most popular and successful leaders in the world. Hitler may have assumed power by nefarious means, but he was not viewed as some terrible dictator by the german people until things turned in WW2. He was a very popular guy viewed in a positve light.

I think the point in this thread is that we can only judge a group by the actions of it's members and the organizations that claim to represent it. Christianity is a group that includes both people who do bad things like Pat Robertson and people who do good things like Mother Theresa. I think it is fair to say that Christianity is like any other group; it has good and it has bad.I think Jar's suggestion is a good one for Christians: If those who claim to be Christians are doing things you think are wrong or non-christian, then make it your duty to speak out against them. If you believe they are no true Christians; then speak out about why you think they are not following the teachings of christ.Pat Roberston for example is a person who does bad things who claims to be a christian. I think it's better to speak out against him, than to say "It doesn't matter, he's not a true christian"Edit: I have edited my post because I think it's unfair for me to say "bad person" and instead I have replaced that with "person who does bad things"This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 02-20-2006 11:51 AM

Not to take the thread off-topic but: It's VERY refreshing to hear someone say that. Kudos RiverRat.To get back on topic: I'm not sure that the no true scotsman is actuallly a fallacy, but I would agree with Jar that it is a cop-out.To me, this whole argument reminds me of how some in this country regard those who criticize bush or the war in iraq to not be true americans.