Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)

Is this really the case? What are the precise criteria for being a scotsman? Is there a genetic marker? Is it purely a question of geography, does being born in Scotland make one a scotsman? Suppose a scotsman renounced his nationality and became a nationalised canadian, would he still be a scotsman?Is choosing to identify oneself as a scotsman not exactly the same sort of choice as choosing to identify oneself as a christian? The criteria may be different but what makes the process distinct?TTFN,WK

Well maybe if you addressed the rest of the post I might know if your argument is convincing.I'm not just going to tke your word for it.Even if you look at the exemplars in that initial article there is plenty of ambiguity. Is 'an Aberdeen man' neccessarily a scotsman? Was he born and bred in Scotland? Were his parents scottish? Has he lived in
Scotland all his life? 'An Aberdeen man' may be none of these things, merely being identified in a newspaper as 'an Aberdeen man' is therefore no guarantee of being a Scotsman by a number of possible criteria. Therefore perhaps in this instance Hamish is quite correct to draw a distinction between a true scotsman who would fit the specific criteria and an untrue scotsman who maybe merely be fitted into that category because he has been identified as being 'an Aberdeen man'. Without knowing the criteria, and being sure that those criteria are universal, we can't draw a distinction between these various groups.In the case of that particular example it may simply reflect some pretty sloppy thinking on Anthony Flew’s part.TTFN,WK

Me too, I'm all against the kicking of balls.TTFN,WK

No true scotsman would stoop to the kicking of balls when the noble forehead can be used to such good effect.TTFN,WKP.S. I accept no responsibility for any mental images this may conjure up.

And suppose the person they kill is gay and the preacher had just given a hellfire sermon against the sin of homosexuality? Might there be some blame attached then?What if they kill someone while trying to help them by performing an exorcism?Given that we live in a society that is all to ready to apportion blame to almost anything, computer games, films, tv, etc.., I would be very surprised if there wasn't some blame to go round for the churches.TTFN,WK

Eh?That doesn't convey anything at all.Are the criteria for being Christian universal? Do you think there are even 3 christians on these forums who could agree on a set of criteria? And if someone who had up until a certain point fitted those criteria deviated from them would they somehow have retrospectively not fitted them before?TTFN,WK

But should we hold it responsible if you do something good?TTFN,WK

And? So? Are you saying that anyone who sins at all is not a 'true' christian?If you are prepared to stand by the contention that the only 'true christian' was Jesus then there is nothing to discuss. The NTS fallacy would be totally irrelevant to someone with that view. Yes, all other things being equal.TTFN,WK

Perhaps you could find somewhere where this has happened with NTS being used to blame christianity for something through guily by association rather than being brought up as a rebuttal for someone trying to dissociate christians from something by using 'true christian' argument.I'm not saying that it isn't used as a form of offense, but your position that it is routinely used in that way could do with some support, especially as a contrary position has been voiced.TTFN,WK

What you are arguing against isn't the NTS argument. You are arguing against the position that christianity is bad because it actually causes or promotes people to do bad things. That isn't neccessarily a straw man, I have seen people make such claims, but it certainly has nothing to do with the NTS argument unless you yourself are using NTS as a defense.TTFN,WK

This seems like a bizarre question to ask on a discussion board. Of course you can!! You can claim to be whatever you like, you can claim to be a small dog waving a spade if you like.Once again whether you are 'truly' black depends upon having specific criteria for determining 'true blackness'.TTFN,WK