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Author Topic:   Death of a Scotsman (Re: the "no true Scotsman" fallacy)
nwr
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Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 16 of 210 (287277)
02-16-2006 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
02-16-2006 8:12 AM


Not a fallacy IMO
In my opinion, "no True Scotsman" is not a logical fallacy at all. It might sometimes be an evasion, but that would depend on what were the intentions of whoever used this argument.
Admittedly, it is also my opinion that most "logical arguments" aren't. That is, they are not really logical arguments.
What makes something a logical argument is the following of particular rules of inference to reach a conclusion. Those rules of inference are supposed to be formal, thus independent of the meaning of the terms involved. A logic fallacy is the incorrect application of those rules of inference.
Most arguments, including most of what are called "logical arguments" are really arguments about the premises, or arguments about the meanings of the terms. Thus what is in dispute is not the logic.
This thread already demonstrates my point. Several posters have disagreed with you over the meaning of "true Scotsman". And they haven't all agreed with each other as to what that meaning is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 02-16-2006 8:12 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 17 of 210 (287279)
02-16-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
02-16-2006 9:05 AM


There are very clear standards for being a Christian that make it possible and even necessary for someone who knows the standards to say that someone else is or isn't a "true Christian."
ROTFL
People disagree all the time about who is and who isn't a Christian.
If there are two Christians in the room, there will be at least two different sets of standards as to what makes somebody a Christian.

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 Message 4 by Faith, posted 02-16-2006 9:05 AM Faith has replied

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 173 of 210 (289069)
02-21-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by riVeRraT
02-21-2006 9:17 AM


Re: christians and scots
again, I think it comes down to the context of the word "true" and how it is being used.
I think you are taking the expression "no true Scotsman" too literally.
When somebody uses the expression "No true Scotsman" in such an argument, that person is denying that the ordinary meaning of "Scotsman" is the right one, and insisting that his own personal (and subjective) meaning is the one that counts in this case.
Angus is no true Scotsman
means something very different from
It is not true that Angus is a Scotsman.
The distinction you have been making between "Scotsman" and "Christian" simply does not seem relevant to the way NTS is used.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by riVeRraT, posted 02-21-2006 9:17 AM riVeRraT has replied

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