"...except in the case of rape or incest."

BTW: Chirp, Labyrinth is a cool movie. Watch it when you can.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

That's actually "implantation." Like what, exactly? Look, if a human being takes up residence in your body against your will, seems to me you have every right to evict that person.We're talking about the death of something too simple even to know that it's alive in the first place. Less of a mind than a cat or dog. I don't believe it has a "soul" or whatever and I certainly wouldn't hold another person hostage to my own personal speculations about humanity's place in the cosmos.I don't think that's callous. Callous is the attitude that a woman who has sex has only one purpose, and that's as a life-support system for a fetus. Indeed, some women find it traumatic. Maybe that has something to do with all the people that line up to call them sluts and babykillers.Other women, who aren't inculcated in the belief that taking an entirely reasonable action in the face of an unexpected situation, have little trouble with abortion.

so about 22?i'm all for taking out useless 18 year olds.

such a loving and christian thing to say. and once again i am left knowing that all the bible must be about is making other people suffer because you think you're better than they are. priceless.

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Other women, who aren't inculcated in the belief that taking an entirely reasonable action in the face of an unexpected situation, have little trouble with abortion.

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Indeed. This very point came up on another message board and I decided to try to find something on PubMed. I didn't find very much, but the studies I did find either found that either there was no significant impact on the mental health of the mother, or that the mental health effects correlated with the moral beliefs held by the mother before the abortion.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

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If this hypothetical pregnant woman/teenager got pregnant due to having unprotected sex without thinking of the consequences: We'll I wans't the one not using protection.

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Only 8% of people getting abortions hadn't been using any protection at all.90% were using some kind of contraception when they got pregnant.

So... if somebody makes a mistake they're forever doomed.... No chance for redemption, forgiveness, salvation.... Yer on yer own.Nice philosophy.

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During my life I've touched the lives of literally thousands of young people, fathered 2 kids, grandfathered 2 and now am the great-grandfather of 1. Had she found and could afford an abortionist, all those who have been touched by my life would not.

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Yeah, and if Hitler's mother had aborted him, 6 million Jews wouldn't have been killed.By your logic, we should all be having as many children as we possibly can because of all of the good that might not be done by those people if we don't.

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My understanding is a woman's mental problems are multiplied by an abortion.

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Why is that your understanding?Most surveys and data I've seen say that most women are greatly relieved after getting an abortion.

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the egg is not a human until it is attached and starts the process of forming. I believe that is 'conception'.

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The egg is fertilized and begins the process of cell division in the fallopian tubes, long before it reaches the uterus and (maybe) attaches to the wall.Most people who believe "life begins at conception" are talking about the moment, pre implantation, when a sperm gets into the egg and cell division begins.Lemme guess, you didn't have sex education in school, did you?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-15-2006 07:44 PM

brennakimi is fietsy tonight! I dont know whether to be mad or turned on!!!Do I think I am better than anyone else? heck no! I've done sins just like everybody. Do I want people to suffer? Heck no.Was it an unchristian thing to say? Maybe youre right. We dont want anybody to suffer. We really dont want people who cheated on their spouse to suffer divorce and lose their butts in alamony payments, even though what he/she did was wrong. Screw taking responsibility for your actions!! We dont want those guys at enron to suffer, even though they ruined the life savings of untold people. Let em go free!! Screw the idea that people need to take RESPONSIBILITY for their actions!!!! Heck, lets not punish our kids for doing things wrong! "Oh son, you cheated on your test? Ah, I've done worse. Why should you take Responsibility for your actions?"If two people concieve a child/fetus/VARMIT out of sheer stupidity (as opposed to rape or incest), should they not take responsibility for making that child and raise it, instead of going down to the local abortion clinic and getting a quick fix? Sure, those bloodthirsty crowds at the front are hard to face, but it's no picnic to raise a kid, change it's diapers abazillion times, and worrying if they will make the same mistake that YOU made. That's stress over a period of REST OF YOUR LIFE, as opposed to a few minutes facing a horrid crowd calling you "babykiller"Do I believe that once you screwed up, there is no forgiveness? Jesus died so we COULD be forgiven. Once you ask god to forgive you, it's forgiven by God. A new clean slate. But there are still consequences in this world for some of our actions, and we have to take the responsibility for them.I'm no better than anybody else. I wonder if you think the same about yourself. That would be Priceless to know.This message has been edited by LudoRephaim, 03-15-2006 09:52 PM

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Yes, ringo, I do believe that people can be forgiven. Salvation can be achieved (see Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and JOhn for details)And no, they are not "ON yer own" God's always there (he is Omnipresent, according to scrip)and those that love and are related to that girl/woman who is seeking an abortion SHOULD be there. And probably most are. If you looked at what I was writing, you would see that it wans't God, Jesus, Buddah (hey, this forum is for everybody )or the girl/woman's family and freinds. It was the Government saying "No" Doesn't mean the gov cant help (welfare is a good thing, despite some abuses. And they can hunt down and bring to jail the jerk that got her pregnant)but I was referring to government, not God, people, or myself.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

I think if this debate gets a little more heated up, somebody is going to have a cornary (LOL)

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Looking for the heat.....LOL you don't get out much do ya hun?This is the most tame rape, incest, abortion topic we've ever had.

90 Percent of people getting abortions where using protection? Dang, those things are ripoffs!I dont think that rapists will think fo using contraceptives most of the time, so I think they would be in the 8% you quoted (or maybe the 2?)Probably incest cases are in that margin too.So even if protection is used, there could be a risk (a HUGE one at that)Sounds like something hormonal teens need to take to mind.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Hey Asgara No, I dont get out much. I'm usually am to busy with college homework to do so. Plus I was home schooled until I started going to College. Didn't get much time for dating and stuff like that.BTW: I notice your Avatar is one of the "Venus" Figures. Makes me think of "The 13th Warrior" movie, where Vikings fight Neanderthals. It's agood one, but the book is better.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Weelll... in a democracy, the government is the people, including yourself. You are responsible for what your government does.The first responsibility of a government is to take care of its people, especially those who can't take care of themselves. If the government fails to do so, it is your responsibility as a citizen to step in and do it for them.And finally, it is your responsibility as a Christian to take care of "the least of these".Do you know what forgiveness is? When a loan is forgiven, do you still have to pay it back?If the mother is forgiven for accidentally getting pregnant, how can you still want to punish her with an unwanted pregnancy and motherhood?

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