"...except in the case of rape or incest."

Hey Asgara No, I dont get out much. I'm usually am to busy with college homework to do so. Plus I was home schooled until I started going to College. Didn't get much time for dating and stuff like that.BTW: I notice your Avatar is one of the "Venus" Figures. Makes me think of "The 13th Warrior" movie, where Vikings fight Neanderthals. It's agood one, but the book is better.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

I am responsible for what my country does? Hmmm. When Germany elected Hitler, it was a democracy (they did vote), and later Hitler took dictator power and killed 6 million Jews. I guess those germans today are responsible for his crimes. Where are those A-bombs?I would help those who cant help themselves. I've stated that I would help a pregnant woman if she needed it. And if we are talking government here, then they could increase our taxes a bit to aid those who are with a kid they can't support. But i'm not going to help them do an abortion.The woman isn't forgiven for accidentaly getting pregnant: in the case of sex without marraige, she is forgiven for (u guessed it) having sex OUTSIDE marraige. She's forgiven by God, but the pregnancy is still there, and if from the Biblical standpoint, you abort, you take a life.Yes, I know what forgiveness is. And you dont have to pay back a loan when it is forgiven. But you know,If I accidentally hit someone's car, I would want to pay the guy who owned it for the damage I caused, not run away and try to pretend it didn't happen.
Why would you want a girl/woman to get rid of her kid ie abortion and pretend it didn't happen? Why not belly up and take responsibility? It seems like the more moral thing to do?But then again we are coming from two words. I see an unborn VARMIT as a child, based on religious beliefs, and you see the unborn as something not fully human, based on your beliefs. We will keep butting heads on this and wont make any progress, dont you agree?This message has been edited by LudoRephaim, 03-15-2006 10:38 PM

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

BTW: Getting Pregnant for any circumstance IS NOT A SIN. Sexual Immorality (I.e fornication) which can lead to Pregnancy, IS a sin, and just like any sin, it can be forgiven. God intended for womento get pregnant in marraige, but no matter how you get pregnant, it is not a sin in and of it'self to be pregnant. Even accidentally getting pregnant is not a sin, only if the sex you are doing that does get you pregnant is a sin if it is immoral. There is no such thing as "Immoral Pregnancy" (LOL) in the Bible. Hope I cleared that up

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Skeptics annotated Bible? ROFLMAO!!!! Talk about a neutral, reputable source!!! Oh yeah, it's reputable, even though it takes verses out of context!If you want to go with a neutral source, try at the least Robert Alter's "The Five Books of Moses" Pentateuch translation (which I have) It is translated by a non-religious Jew who can be as liberal in interpretation as anybody.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Ringo states:"im really uncomfortable with calling a child "VARMIT"-unborn or not."So, you are not okay with calling the unborn a "Varmit" but you are okay with it being killed in abortion? Whoa.And you seem to call it "child" here. So a child can be iced for the sake of the mother. Interesting.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

brennakimi states:"shut the Hell up."Somebody forgot to take their mydol....

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Crashfrog wrote:"Actually, in the Bible, God promises to cause an abortion if the pregnancy is the result of infidelity,"God also takes people's lives as punishment for wickedness too (see Genesis 6-7, 18:16-19)So, I guess by your argument that it is okay for us to preform abortions if God does them. And based on that, since God kills people OUTSIDE the womb, I guess I can kill my neighbor for wickedness as well. Were is that chainsaw??

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Ringo wrote:"Do we see the Pro-lifers advocating higher taxes to support single Mothers?"Im one that does. I would love to pay higher taxes to support single mothers.BTW: 18 year olds, last time I checked, are fully human, unless it's proven that they are part Homo Heidelbergensis until they reach the age of 24....

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Oh Crashfrog. Your sense of Logic...1: God is good
2:Therefore the actions of God are good.
3:Therefore we can take life like God, be worshipped like God, and do whatever the Hell we choose! Screw the fact that GOD is GOD and we are NOT.Religious Zealots killing sinners? No different from Atheist Zealouts (we call them COMMUNISTS)that killed those that didn't agree with the status quo in Russia, China, North Korea and elsewhere with a communist dictatorship.Oh yeah, atheism is so perfect and bloodless and without blemish LOL.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Hey dude Let me clear up some things. If I know a girl who is going to get an abortion, I would try to talk her out of it, but I cant force her to do one thing or the other. I cant physically restrain her to keep from doing an abortion. She has to make that decision. Now when it comes to making abortion illegal, I am for it. But even then, I'm not going to restrain anyone physically from getting an abortion. Everybody has a free will, despite what 5-point-Calvinists would have you believe LOL.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

brennakimi states:
"oh, that's just crossing the line."Any more than telling me to "shut the Hell up"? or saying that I think I am better than anybody else? Who started what here?

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Crashfrog wrote:
"Communist dictatorships are not atheist; They deified and worshipped the state"Isn't that the "NO True Scotsman" fallacy?You know, the Nazis deified the aryan race, does that make the majority of them atheist? Not really, since even they where religious (many where Christian).Communist nations deified the state, but they didn't believe in a real God. does that make them deists, since they "deified" the soviet state?Go back to my Bible? GO back to your history books! These are the same people who formed the "Militant Atheist International" that was totally against any form of God or religion. That would be apeculiar title of an organization that wans't openly Atheist.As for your interpretation of the Bible: see Exodus 20:13. I'll bring more back in a minute.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Hey chirp:It doesn't matter what their driven tenets where. They were Atheists, and atheism was a doctrine of soviet Communism.The Nazis didn't have the ten commandments as a tenet of their doctrine, yet many of them where Christian.It is off topic, but Crashfrog brought it up.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

BTW: If it is NUmbers 5:21-28 that you are trying to show that the Bible says it is okay to cause abortions (LOL), you might want to start with verse 11, where the context begins. It does say "Miscarry" in the TNIV, but the whole context is talking about making the woman infertile and subject to misscarraiges (if Adultrey is proved) not to abort a fetus right then so that the woman isn't suffering an unwanted pregnancy or motherhood. And remember, this is a PUNISHMENT for sin. The Hebrews where not allowed to murder (Exodus 20:13) but it does aquire the death penalty for some sins (Exodus 22:18-20, Leviticus 20:27)Taking life is not allowed save for an exection of a person who does some particular sin, just as this "abortion" (LOL)is done not because it was okay and allowed freely, but as a punishment.BTW: Do you think that Christians today are binded by the ceremonial laws and civil laws described in the Torah, especially this one, that you think shows that Abortion is okay? If so, see Galatians.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Actually the comparison is apt. Crashfrog is trying to show that Christians have a tainted history (which we do) while Atheism is so loveable and innocent. If atheists killed millions, some of them brutally in the soviet gulags, it doesn't matter what their tenets are. They are Atheists. Plus atheism was a major part of Soviet doctrine.Unless Crashfrog thinks that atheists are perfect, I think it is good to say that no matter the history or values of your faith/philosophy, not everybody in those philosophies are all good people. Basically, we are all Jackasses.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4