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Author
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Topic: Prophecy of Messiah: Isaiah 7
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: Isaiah 7:14 - 8:10 Contextual Considerations
No way. 1. The Deuteronomy prophecy is prophesied and addressed to the Israelites (descendents of Jacob) This prophet was to rise up from among the descendents of these people, according to the prophecy. Muhammed was not. 2. The prophecy was relative to the god, Jehovah, the god of the Bible; not the god Allah, god of the Quran which was worshipped regularly at Mecca among all the other pagan gods before Muhammed eliminated all of Allah's rival gods there. 3. The Deuteronomy prophecy perfectly fits Jesus, corroborating the prophecy of Isaiah 7.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 133 of 202 (293786)
03-09-2006 8:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 129 by doctrbill
03-04-2006 12:18 AM
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Re: Hebrew Understood By Jews Of The Day
DocBill writes: Don't be so hard on yourself, Buzz. I've never thought of you as a "Dead Horse." I'm not feeling a thing. It's your dead horse that you've been beating. It appears you're finally letting the thing rest in peace. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 129 by doctrbill, posted 03-04-2006 12:18 AM | | doctrbill has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: wrong jesus as well as No Way at 132
Hi again, Rawel. (I welcome you also to EvC, btw.) You need to respond to my points as to why Muhammed does not fit the Deuteronomy prophecy. Can you refute my points as to why he doesn't fit that text? Abe: Don't forget, as AdminJar says, to hit the reply button below this message to reapond. This message has been edited by buzsaw, 03-09-2006 10:16 PM
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 160 of 202 (294390)
03-12-2006 12:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 157 by jar
03-11-2006 9:23 PM
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Isaiah Prophecy A Future Event
Hi again, Jar. I need to hit hay soon, but here's my analysis of Isaiah 7: 1. Ahaz, king of Judah is threatened by a hostile confederacy of Syria and Ephriam. Ahaz is worried. 2. God assures Ahaz that he will deal with the problem, offering him his choice of some sign for assurance of this. 3. Ahaz declines the offering of the sign. 4. God appears to be displeased with this reaction of Ahaz. So he says then he would show the house of David a sign relative to a future day. The sign is regarding this word which is used often in texts implicative of virgin and which is attested by the NT writer Matthew as reference to Jesus. Note the child's name in Isaiah 7:14 is Immanuel which means God with us and as per Matthew, Jesus, God's son fits that description by his being incarnated by God. 5. God reveals to the prophet Isaiah that this birth is a future event, the repeated phrase in that day clearly indicative of this. A careful reading of these in that day verses of chapter 7 clearly imply a future event substantially removed from the day the prophecy was given. 6. This son will not be born until the lands of these enemies of the House of David will be brought down and become places of shepherds and desolated. The son will know to do the good and refuse the evil, clearly again implying the christ/messiah, Jesus. 7. Chapter 8 begins with another child given another name which is to be soon born and will not be old enough to call his mother and dad before Samaria is brought down. 8. This is overshadowed by an addendum, if you will to the Isaiah 7 prophecy of the future of Judah leading up to chapter 9 verses six and seven in another famous messianic prophetic statement further describing the Imanuel, messianic child of Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah 9:6,7:
text writes: Forunto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God. Everlasting Father. Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace here shall be no end upon the thone of David and upon his kingdom to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth, even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this. Jar, my friend, you needn't agree with the above, nor with the other things being debated contrary to your views on this but willful ignorance it is not. Okay, bud?
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 157 by jar, posted 03-11-2006 9:23 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 164 by ramoss, posted 03-12-2006 8:39 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied | | | Message 166 by jar, posted 03-12-2006 9:57 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 161 of 202 (294394)
03-12-2006 12:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 159 by jar
03-11-2006 11:23 PM
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Re: Yet another example of parts of Isaiah that must be ignored
Jar writes: When during Jesus life did the King of Assyria shave the Hebrews heads, the hair of their legs and take off their beards? There is simply no way that anyone who reads Isaiah can see Isaiah 7 refering to Jesus without ignoring all of the rest of the story. "In that day" is indicative of a general period of time relative to the messianic era. Often these OT messianic prophecies include the end time of the 2nd advent of Jesus when he rules and reigns in his millenial kingdom, the church age, being a silent mystery to the prophets. In fact the church age is referred to as a mystery being finished in Revelation 10, I believe verse 7 as told by the prophets as it states something like that without taking time to look it up. The Bible, like your science is a lifetime study book which can require extensive cross reference et al, leaving different scholars with different insight. As my pastor says in some of our discussions, "iron sharpens iron" as we hash over these things.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 159 by jar, posted 03-11-2006 11:23 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: Yet another example of parts of Isaiah that must be ignored
Arach writes: so not fulfilled (yet) then? That's not what I said nor what I implied. Reread my message thoughtfully and carefully before responding. I said to include the end time, the church age being a mystery, meaning it was not seen by the prophets.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 170 of 202 (294512)
03-12-2006 1:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 168 by jar
03-12-2006 1:06 PM
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Re: Isaiah Prophecy A Future Event
Take it up with with admins, Jar. I'm done with you until we get this resolved.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 168 by jar, posted 03-12-2006 1:06 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 171 by jar, posted 03-12-2006 1:14 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 179 of 202 (296386)
03-17-2006 9:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 178 by ramoss
03-17-2006 6:41 PM
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ramoss writes: NO that is the whole point. Isaiah 7 was fullfilled in Isaiah 8:3. The proof of this is Isaiah 8:18. Isaiah 8:3 8:3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, Call his name Mahershalalhashbaz. This shows that Isaiah was specifically referring to his wife. As a reinforcement of this, look at Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. Not so. I've explained this in message 160. I've brought it forward with some enhancements for emphasis and clarification. Note especially the emboldened items.
message 160 items writes: Isaiah 7: 1. Ahaz, king of Judah is threatened by a hostile confederacy of Syria and Ephriam. Ahaz is worried. 2. God assures Ahaz that he will deal with the problem, offering him his choice of some sign for assurance of this. 3. Ahaz declines the offering of the sign. 4. God appears to be displeased with this reaction of Ahaz. So he says then he would show the house of David (i.e. Judah) a sign relative to a future day. The sign is regarding this word which is used often in texts implicative of virgin and which is attested by the NT writer Matthew as reference to Jesus. Note the child's name in Isaiah 7:14 is Immanuel which means God with us and as per Matthew, Jesus, God's son fits that description by his being incarnated by God. 5. God reveals to the prophet Isaiah that this birth is a future event, the repeated phrase, "in that day," clearly indicative of this. A careful reading of these "in that day" verses of chapter 7 clearly imply a future event substantially removed from the day the prophecy was given. 6. This son, Immanuel, meaning God with us, referring to Jesus will not be born until the lands of these enemies of the House of David will be brought down and become places of shepherds and desolated. The son will know to do the good and refuse the evil, clearly again implying the christ/messiah, Jesus. This future event will require substantial time. 7. Now for the short haul, chapter 8 begins with another child given another name which is to be soon born and will not be old enough to call his mother and dad before Samaria is brought down. This sign was for the purpose of the immediate threat by Sumaria.(soon) 8. This is overshadowed by an addendum, if you will to the Isaiah 7 prophecy of the future of Judah leading up to chapter 9 verses six and seven in another famous messianic prophetic statement further describing the Imanuel, messianic child of Isaiah 7:14. Isaiah 9:6,7: text writes: Forunto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God. Everlasting Father. Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace here shall be no end upon the thone of David and upon his kingdom to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from henceforth, even for ever. The zeal of Jehovah of hosts will perform this.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 178 by ramoss, posted 03-17-2006 6:41 PM | | ramoss has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 184 of 202 (296575)
03-19-2006 10:38 AM
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Reply to: Message 180 by PaulK
03-18-2006 6:36 AM
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The Events Of The Prophecy
PaulK writes: Regardless of whether the child in Isaiah 7 is the same as the child in Isaiah 8 it is absolutely clear that the child of Isaiah 7 must be born before the events of the prophecy occur. Those events include the defeat of the kingdoms of Aram (Syria) and Israel. Both were long gone by the time Jesus was born. 1. The events of the prophecy include: a. The land of the two kings Judah abhors will become forsaken wasteland. v.16 b. Jehovah will bring upon Judah and the people of Judah, new days unlike the past. v. 17 c. The flies and bees shall rest in the desolate valleys of Egypt and Assyria. v. 18,19 d. The hired of the king of Assyria will have shaven heads and beards.v. 20 e. Poor herdsmen with a few animals will inhabit the desolate land. v. 21,22 f. Thorns and briers will cover the forsaken land fit only for herdsmen's animals. 2. NOTE VERSE 16. All of this will happen before the one who chooses to do the good and abor the evil, i.e. the sinless Imanuel (God with us/God incarnate) child is born.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by PaulK, posted 03-18-2006 6:36 AM | | PaulK has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 185 by ramoss, posted 03-19-2006 10:57 AM | | Buzsaw has replied | | | Message 186 by jar, posted 03-19-2006 11:48 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 193 of 202 (296674)
03-19-2006 10:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by jar
03-19-2006 11:48 AM
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Re: Not just wilfully ignoring verses but
Jar, I see you enjoy inflaming your opponents. You know what I think about your insults. Go and talk to someone else and I'll do the same.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by jar, posted 03-19-2006 11:48 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 196 by jar, posted 03-19-2006 11:17 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 194 of 202 (296679)
03-19-2006 10:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 185 by ramoss
03-19-2006 10:57 AM
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Re: The Events Of The Prophecy
What about the other stuff I've cited which was also included in the prophecy, i.e. the "in that day" future stuff like the land becoming a desolation, etc?
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 185 by ramoss, posted 03-19-2006 10:57 AM | | ramoss has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 197 by jar, posted 03-19-2006 11:17 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: the classic reverse strawman fallacy
Arach writes: really? let's look again. first, jar asked: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When during Jesus life did the King of Assyria shave the Hebrews heads, the hair of their legs and take off their beards? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- instead of providing an answer (indeed, you could not have found one in the bible), you wrote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In that day" is indicative of a general period of time relative to the messianic era. Often these OT messianic prophecies include the end time of the 2nd advent of Jesus when he rules and reigns in his millenial kingdom, the church age, being a silent mystery to the prophets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- in other words, that bit of the prophecy applies to "the end time, the church age" and not something that happened (past tense) during the life of jesus. something that will happen during the "2nd advent of Jesus when he rules and reigns in his millenial kingdom." we can tell that because given the two things it could be referring to, it's not one of them. so it must be the other. in other words, not fulfilled (yet), but will be during the second coming. Read the text. 1. The Lord, not the King of Assyria, does the shaving. 2. The shaving text is quite ambiguous as to exactly what it means, but in context it appears to be related to the desolation of the land involving the King of Assyria with just what that involvement is being what is ambiguous. "That is hired in the parts beyond the river with the King of Assyria" The previous verse as well as verses following all deal with the desolation of the land of Assyria and the region in general. 3. Factoring in all the verses of the prophecy with the repetition of the phrase "in that day" applied to the growing in of "thorns and briers" et al, there's no way you can apply it to the short term there and then.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW
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