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Author | Topic: The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
What's disrespectful about saying "Jesus Christ is not my Lord"? He either is or he isn't - I would have thought. It's just that the tenor of the remark sounded slightly flippant to me. I don't want to be disrespecting a particular religion.
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
The 'religion' under discussion will not offended. Rather than get bogged down in the bi-sexual-like, have-it-both ways position of agnosticism, it would be sufficient to say "He is not my Lord at this time"
I'm curious now.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Seems a little odd as an atheist to talk about anybody either being or not being one's "Lord" don't you think? The whole concept of Jesus as Lord is alien to anyone but us Christians.
What if he said "I don't believe Jesus is God" or "I don't follow Jesus" or something like that?
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
No good, I'm afraid Faith.
It is only by Gods action in a person that they can say "Jesus is Lord". Very specific words. And very specific words to deny. Faced with lions I would wriggle in all directions - who would not? But I would not say "Jesus is NOT my Lord" Unto death. And I just want to be sure that there isn't a Christian who is more cunning as a fox than I can even imagine out there. For if there is - I won't pray and hope and worry about him any longer
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Brian Member (Idle past 4988 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
What if he said "I don't believe Jesus is God" or "I don't follow Jesus" or something like that? Perhap's Robin's impressively high moral standards makes it impossible for him to lie? Brian.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus is Lord is a little different from Jesus is MY Lord or NOT my Lord. But I have no doubt he can say it even if it does sound odd to him. He's not a Christian, Iano. What Christian would play such games anyway?
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docpotato Member (Idle past 5076 days) Posts: 334 From: Portland, OR Joined: |
Maybe so. It's hard to know oneself. Agreed.
But I don't think I'm on a moral pedestal here, unless being annoyed by boasts is being on a moral pedestal. I dunno. Probably not. This seems to be a case where you're disgusted by what you perceive to be bad manners. That you felt the need to tell the whole forum about it and that you were so perscriptive in your language ("If one is an atheist one should never speak this way. One should say...") annoys my sense of good taste, and thus I feel wrankled and participate. It doesn't help that you called out the group with which I identify in your perscription. Anyway, in asking if you were up on your own moral pedestal, I was referring to your comment about never meeting anyone with exemplary morals. I thought it was funny; it shows that you're certainly not below casting aspertions at other people's morals (OPM). The question is if you feel yourself on equal footing as them or above them. From what you said above and in the past, I'd wager equal footing. but it's off topic and not important. Carry on. Edited by docpotato, : for fun.
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
What Christian would play such games anyway? I'm curious. Let it play...
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iano Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
He's not a Christian, Iano. That is not for you or I to decide. Nor for you or I to declare.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The question is if you feel yourself on equal footing as them or above them. From what you said above and in the past, I'd wager equal footing Equal. I certainly don't have an exemplary moral character. Far from it. The other part of what I'm saying is that a sentimental view of life or of oneself ought to be avoided. But that of course is just an opinion I have. I don't think there's anything boastful about arguing that, however. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The Apostle Paul was a good example. He was good with words, though, and had a valid justification for such boasting.
NIV writes: Paul was by nature a boastful man. Even after he, as Saul, got knocked off his high horse, he continued to boast as a Christian. 1 Cor 1:26-31--Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things-and the things that are not-to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God-that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." Im certainly not attacking Paul, for I have behaved much the same way in my Christian walk. I used to love to encourage others to find Christ and to come to church! Many of my co-horts would declare that God certainly would put another jewell in MY crown for leading someone to Christ. Again, from Paul.... NIV writes: These days, I am in awe of what Christ has done through me. I am also humbled over what I have done to myself....getting in debt, behaving rather badly at times, and looking like a fool. Phil 1:3-6--I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Were it not Christ proclaimed in me, people would just see me as another in a long line of deluded, circular reasoning, doubleminded fools. Because of the proclamation, however, I am judged as well as my beliefs. This is where many atheists boast. They are quite intelligent as a group, just as Christians are quite ignorant as a group. This brings the focus of the debate---and the reasoning--up to a philosophical level. 1) Does it really matter what we do on a daily basis, or what we say? I ask us to consider the infamous butterfly effect. If an insects fluttering wings can influence world weather patterns if but to a minute degree, how much more so can a misplaced boast, snide comment, or inappropriate response minutely influence the hundreds of lurkers who read our posts on a daily basis? On a personal note, I never boast about being a Christian anymore, because it has not elevated me above anyone else in this world. My relationship with Him has given me comfort and I am greatful for it. The point of this post, Robin, is to tell you that I appreciate your honesty and don't encourage you to profess anything new. On the other hand, if you feel led to reach out and trust an invisible God (to you) I can say with a bit of a boast (but mostly contritely) that He is not invisible in my heart, nor are you.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1473 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
He's not a Christian, Iano. ============= That is not for you or I to decide. Nor for you or I to declare. I totally disagree. This is beyond question. Ask him if you don't believe me.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Perhap's Robin's impressively high moral standards makes it impossible for him to lie? Very funny, Brian. No, I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheistic nihilist.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
docpotato writes: Its equal footing, Doc. I dont have anything that you don't have in the way of favor. As pertains to my belief, He found me...I never found Him. The question is if you feel yourself on equal footing as them or above them. From what you said above and in the past, I'd wager equal footing. but it's off topic and not important. In terms of intelligence, you probably have a more disciplined mode of thinking than I do. If you were to logically attempt to persuade me to change my beliefs, I may consider that you felt yourself on a better intellectual foundation than I am. I would not hold it against you, however, as we all are unique individuals with unique beliefs and opinions.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
What Christian would play such games anyway? That's what bothers me a little. This seems like a game.
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