The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)

Yeah. You have to use words like "dynamic" a lot."My dynamic leadership style . . ." blah, blah.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone boast as much as this. That's because it is a fairytale.Brian.

quote:

---

I don't think you would find believers claiming exemplary moral character. Quite the opposite in fact.

---

I've found that attitude more prevalent among those who have come to Christianity later in life or after turmoil.Churches I've been in teach for us to be an example. My father never was a proponent of the "Do as I say, but not as I do" school of thought.

quote:

---

Believers claim (or rather accept) that morally they are quite bankrupt.

---

I'm not sure why you would think a believer would accept that they are morally bankrupt after they have accepted Christ, when with the acceptance of Christ into your life God writes the "laws" on your heart. Churches I've belonged to taught that God writes his morals on our hearts and the Holy Spirit convicts us of that which we need to change in our lives to bring us in line with those morals. We shed the old self and God helps us to build a new self.

---

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

So it sounds like atheists boast how good they are and Christians boast how bad they are. Interesting.

---

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

Yes, that's about it.Anytime one makes a statement about oneself, it is possible to read into it an implied boast, even in a non-religious context.If I say, "I am not a very good person," the implied boast might be "Look how honest I am."Anytime one criticizes someone or something, one might read into it an implied boast.This is unavoidable, but I don't think this is quite the same thing as an overt, blatant boast, meant seriously.

Patently. The longer you have to find out you are morally bankrupt the fewer fig leaves there are to hide behind. One is more completely convinced and can reply with a resounding "Guilty" to the charges laid before them. I was indeed such a one. He does write those laws as you say. Whereas before the law was hated the law is loved now. The sense and beauty behind them is seen and now, unlike before, I want to obey them. But any obedience to that law comes from his work in me. I am a bankrupt business placed in the hands of a receiver. The receiever is finacing the show, holding things up. My own bankruptcy hasn't changedI am still a sinner. This is so - but I am still morally bankrupt so long as I am a sinner (which is until the day I die at which point the sinful nature is shed and I can sin no more). Sure the degree and frequency of sin might be expected to alter things during this process of 'sanctification'. But filth all sin remains. This is an exhoration indeed. It is what we should do. Not that we will always do so.

I think that you have to consider it in the context of Iano's religious beliefs. He isn't saying that he's any worse than anyone else - it's the doctrine of his Church that everyone is that bad. And admitting it is supposedly a requirement for salvation. So he's really trying to imply that he's "Saved" - and not displaying any real humility.

There is that implication. But my point is that one can read boasts into all sorts of statements, religious or not, one might make about oneself.

I have a theory about this, believe it or not! Okay, it goes back to this idea of some Xians who need to believe in a higher authority, some supreme being that is in control. Now, a certain type of Christian, of which Ian and Faith are examples, need to rationalise why they keep sinning, and thus annoying their maker. However, by screaming from the rooftops that they are tainted with sin, that they are stinking, revolting, unworthy creatures because of this sin, it removes the responsibility of their actions from them.They can plead that it isn't really their fault that they keep falling short of a decent level of morality, you see it isn't really their fault, it is because of inherent sinful nature that they continue to sin.So, in reality, Ian was boasting when he described himself, the more revolting you make yourself sound, the more the responsibility for your actions is removed from you. How can you expect a disgusting creature to act with a high level of respect and morality? It is a great excuse.Brian.

Sorry to be a nuisance, but can you remind me again of why boasting is such a bad thing, I think I have missed where you say this.Thanks.Brian.

Boasting is considered bad manners in polite society, I think.

Once declared bankrupt its a little academic to ponder to what extent one is bankrupt. More or less bankrupt doesn't come into it. Its a line that is crossed and all stand on the same side of it as me (theologically speaking). And if all sin is forgiven a particular person, its a little academic to ponder on the extent that one is forgiven more or less than another. Its another line that is crossed. It digital not analogue. It was a statement of fact and not really something about which one would display boastfullness or humility. "I occupy this (theologically) objective position". I can however boast of being saved - but not in the objectionable sense that Robin has been referring to here: for I boast not of myself but of what he has done for me without my meriting it. For instance:

quote:

---

1 Corinthians 1:31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

---

Edited by iano, : No reason given.

So not only do you make no distinction you won't even admit to a distinction. Everyone is as bad as, say, Hitler.

quote:

---

It was a statement of fact and not really something about which one would display boastfullness or humility.

---

And that is my point - even though you presented it as if it were an example of humility, in your mind it is not.

Obviously, you haven`t met too many members of the Watchtower Society. :-P

You must have missed the 'Ian is a Bigot' post last week!According to Ian, the JW's are the work of Satan. But he doesn't discriminate between other faiths, all religions apart from his are from Satan. Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism et al, all have Satan as their boss, according to Ian.Brian.