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Author Topic:   The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)
iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 196 of 304 (330772)
07-11-2006 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by PaulK
07-11-2006 8:36 AM


Re: Boasting
So not only do you make no distinction you won't even admit to a distinction. Everyone is as bad as, say, Hitler.
If a person who breaks even the smallest piece of the law is considered to have broken all of it I fail to see much by way of distinction. If there is then I have know way of knowing how to draw it in any useful sense. By the same subjective standards that the world sees Hitler as throughly evil, I wouldn't have been the worst in the world. In practice, I am far worse than the world would have me pegged at. I'm not really in a position to comment to be honest. Bankruptcy is sufficient to go on.
And that is my point - even though you presented it as if it were an example of humility, in your mind it is not.
I didn't present it in humility. I was stating that I am what I am - as a matter of fact, so that my saying a person is a sinner (for example: in discussion here) might not be taken as my speaking in condescending fashion. That's all
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2006 8:36 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2006 9:41 AM iano has replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 641 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 197 of 304 (330773)
07-11-2006 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by purpledawn
07-11-2006 7:51 AM


Re: Boasting
And not only that, Many christians boast on how humble they are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by purpledawn, posted 07-11-2006 7:51 AM purpledawn has not replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 198 of 304 (330774)
07-11-2006 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Nighttrain
07-11-2006 9:01 AM


Re: Exemplary
I'll remember to ask the JW who occasionally calls round next time he does so. I gather they live a pseudo-monastic life (what with all the chruch activity they seem to have to get involved in). Perhaps they equate monasticism with sinlessness. Hmmm?

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 199 of 304 (330776)
07-11-2006 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by iano
07-11-2006 9:26 AM


Re: Boasting
quote:
If a person who breaks even the smallest piece of the law is considered to have broken all of it I fail to see much by way of distinction.
Which is a big "if". It is an obvious injustice to consider someone guilty of an offence that they have not committed. Thus it is clearly unjust to hold that someone who has broken one part of the Law has broken all of it.
But that's off-topic for this thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by iano, posted 07-11-2006 9:26 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 200 of 304 (330778)
07-11-2006 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 179 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 6:17 AM


Re: Boasting
And that is the problem with your whole thread Robin.
First, you are using some nostandard personal definition of what boasting is.
Second, you are taking posts out of context so that no one can tell how it was meant.
Third, why should anyone really care whether or not you feel their statements are boastful? I can see someone getting upset about others actions, for example I oppose those who would oppress people just because they are homosexual, but why get upset about what you have shown as boasts?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 6:17 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 1:02 PM jar has replied

iano
Member (Idle past 1970 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 201 of 304 (330781)
07-11-2006 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by PaulK
07-11-2006 9:41 AM


Re: Boasting
I think the sense it is meant in is that if you break one law you might as well have broken all of them - the end result is the same > damnation (speaking digitally)
One only has to look at the consequences, both temporally and spiritually, of eating one apple in order to get the idea of how God considers sin. Us on the other hand, we take the analogue approach (which is possible why there is so much god-of-the-weighing scales inspired Religion about)
Which is perhaps the source of boasting. Weighing scales worldviews (either arising from a religious god or self-defined moral system) might tend to lead to that

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2006 9:41 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by PaulK, posted 07-11-2006 10:04 AM iano has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17828
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 202 of 304 (330783)
07-11-2006 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by iano
07-11-2006 9:51 AM


Re: Boasting
As I said it's off-topic, but your response amounts to "it doesn't mean what it says".
And I don't really see the point of your other claim. A "digital" worldview which magnifies everything to infinity would seem to be inherently boastful. I know that I would consider someone to be boasting if he claimed to be infinitely evil on the basis of having once ate a single shellfish.

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 203 of 304 (330803)
07-11-2006 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
07-09-2006 12:44 AM


Everything is relative, dear Robin, everything is relative.

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 204 of 304 (330815)
07-11-2006 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by jar
07-11-2006 9:48 AM


Re: Boasting
And that is the problem with your whole thread Robin.
There's more to the idea of this thread than just "boasting." What follows expresses it a little better, I think, than the OP.
However, I think I would sum up my argument as follows: There is a tendency among non-believers, in their eagerness to prove to believers that one can be very happy, fulfilled, and of high moral character without any religious belief, to exaggerate their qualities and the qualities of their experiences--thus the boasting. This exaggerated view of oneself and of life in general might be advantageous in a practical sense--say in the business world--but it's no good philosophically. One has a skewed vision of oneself and of life.
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by jar, posted 07-11-2006 9:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by docpotato, posted 07-11-2006 1:09 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 206 by jar, posted 07-11-2006 1:11 PM robinrohan has replied

docpotato
Member (Idle past 5077 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 205 of 304 (330816)
07-11-2006 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 1:02 PM


Re: Boasting
One has a skewed vision of oneself and of life.
I don't know how you can possibly claim this with any degree of certainty. You aren't allowing for the possibility that you are the one who's got the skewed vision about yourself and life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 1:02 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 206 of 304 (330817)
07-11-2006 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 1:02 PM


Re: Boasting
But where in any of your examples is there signes of exaggeration?
You say:
This exaggerated view of oneself and of life in general might be advantageous in a practical sense--say in the business world--but it's no good philosophically. One has a skewed vision of oneself and of life.
But again, unless you can show there is any exaggeration or that even if there is exaggeration why it is bad philosophically, what is the point?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 1:02 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by robinrohan, posted 07-11-2006 1:19 PM jar has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 207 of 304 (330818)
07-11-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
07-09-2006 11:12 PM


Re: another way of pondering the question
None other than Robin said "Except in a practical sense, it will not do to speak of such things as happiness and morality." That pretty much sums up the options, the practical world of those he quotes compared to some impractical world of chimera he inhabits.
The difference between the practical and the philosophical is that the former is concerned with everyday practical results and the latter has to do with one's overall worldview. Just because life has no objective meaning, this does not mean one has to go around with a frown on one's face all the time. One lives as everyone else lives. But one's inner condition (feelings, thoughts) might be quite different depending on one's worldview.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-09-2006 11:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 304 (330819)
07-11-2006 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by docpotato
07-11-2006 1:09 PM


Re: Boasting
You aren't allowing for the possibility that you are the one who's got the skewed vision about yourself and life.
Of course that's always possible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by docpotato, posted 07-11-2006 1:09 PM docpotato has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by docpotato, posted 07-11-2006 1:26 PM robinrohan has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 209 of 304 (330820)
07-11-2006 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by robinrohan
07-11-2006 1:13 PM


Re: another way of pondering the question
The difference between the practical and the philosophical is that the former is concerned with everyday practical results and the latter has to do with one's overall worldview.
Huh?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 210 of 304 (330822)
07-11-2006 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by jar
07-11-2006 1:11 PM


Re: Boasting
But where in any of your examples is there signs of exaggeration?
As I said before, constant robust awe or enthusiasm for the wonder of life is an exaggeration.
Saying that one has an exemplary moral character is an exaggeration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by jar, posted 07-11-2006 1:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by jar, posted 07-11-2006 1:31 PM robinrohan has replied
 Message 215 by purpledawn, posted 07-11-2006 1:35 PM robinrohan has replied

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