|
Author
|
Topic: boasts of Athiests II
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
It was of value to YOU. That's subjective. Whether it had objective value or not is another matter. In order to for it have objective value, it would have to be valuable generally, not just to you. We don't know for certain whether your experience has objective value or not. But if one is an atheist, one would have to say, to be logically consistent, that any "value" is purely subjective and thus ultimately arbitrary. Another non-statement. So what? What does ANYTHING in that post have to do with the question I asked?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Still not one single reply to my question. Does an objective value have greater value than a subjective value?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Beg your pardon? If you prefer red to blue then red has a higher value than blue, for you. What possible difference does it make if I happen to prefer blue? Does that make yours less valuable?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Some atheists want to have it both ways. They want to say that we are derivations of a mindless process, and yet somehow or other there are objective values. Excuse me Robin. Where are the objective assertions you claim have been made.? The question was are objective values worth more than subjective values? You have said yes but still have not shown a single example of objective values. Don't trot out math again because your comparision was absurd. If you want to use math then you must ask is 2+2=4 is of greater value than 2+3=5.
They want to say that our morals are subjective, and yet they are very vociferous with their politically correct moral dictums. Why is this? You would think they would tone down the moralism. After all, it's all subjective. What moral dictums? Not one person has brought anything like that forward. And as to political correctness, the only place it has been mentioned has been in you and Faith making unsupported assertions.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
You judged your experience to be valuable. That was subjective. I was explaining to you that it was meaningless. Ah, so experience was meaningless. Gottcha now. LOL.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
I meant your judgment of it as valuable was meaningless. Ah, so my judgement of it was valueless. Gottcha.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Now, in the pursuit of truth, what matters is objectivity, not subjectivity. I can subjectively value anything I like, but it means nothing. It might make me happy, of course, but that has nothing to do with truth. So something that brings you pleasure is not True? Yeah, right.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Truth has to do with opinions only. Your opinion that your experience was valuable was purely subjective and therefore meaningless--objectively speaking. Okay Robin. So "Truth has to do with opinions only" but my opinion was meaningless. Gottcha.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
What I meant was your opinion has no truth-value. You keep saying stuff like that. Then you say that it mattered to me. What possible difference does it make whether it is subjective or objective?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
Message 249 of 300 (332367)
07-16-2006 9:39 PM
|
Reply to: Message 246 by Faith
07-16-2006 9:35 PM
|
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Personal or subjective value/opinion = no truth value. Why?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 246 by Faith, posted 07-16-2006 9:35 PM | | Faith has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
It may make no difference to your views, but it makes a difference as regards the truth of the proposition. Yes, you do keep saying stuff like that, but what does it mean?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 251 by robinrohan, posted 07-16-2006 9:42 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
|
|
Message 279 of 300 (332494)
07-17-2006 10:01 AM
|
Reply to: Message 271 by Faith
07-17-2006 7:25 AM
|
|
Re: subjective vs. objective or inherent value
Personal and subjective statements were further defined as having no truth value or being meaningless in the sense that they have no objective truth. Why?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 271 by Faith, posted 07-17-2006 7:25 AM | | Faith has not replied |
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Jar and the awesome world
Jar, do you mean that the world is awesome in a subjective or objective sense? Who the hell cares? LOL
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Jar and the awesome world
Now, if you mean it in the objective sense, the statement would mean that the universe exudes those qualities that produce awe even if there's no one to feel it. Millions and millions of years ago, when there were no people, the world nonetheless was awesome. I'm not sure if the animals feel awe or not, but even before the animals the universe was awesome. Is this what you mean? How utterly silly can your posts get? Would the things that I find awesome exist if there were no one to observe them? Some, certainly. Would they inherently still be as awesome if not observed? Certainly. Others require interaction. For example, the fun of herding the critters was a shared activity, as was rounding up the carts. Neither event would have happened had folk not been there to enjoy them.
Millions and millions of years ago, when there were no people, the world nonetheless was awesome. Not just millions of years ago, billions even Brazillions of years ago the universe was awesome.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
|
Re: Jar and the awesome world
That sounds like your statement is meant in an objective sense. But there's a problem here. Your evidence is SUBJECTIVE. You can't build an objective argument on subjective evidence. Really? Who cares Robin. Oh yeah, you care. Hey Robin, I don't care if you care. How many times do I have to tell you, it is ALL subjective.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
™ Version 4.2