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Author | Topic: boasts of Athiests II | |||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: It seems to me that the problem is that Robin hasn't explained why he holds that subjective views have no truth-value. A statement that has no truth-value is meaningless but we accept personal and subjective statements as having meaning. So on the face of it, Robin's claim is clearly false. Hence, if Robin has a point he needs to explain it.a
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
If they have meaning, then they have a truth-value. It's not much of a "definite idea" if it can't be true or false.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I'd say so. Happiness is subjective, but the statement "I am happy" is objectively true or false.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I think that you are the one getting confused. See below for reasons.
quote: I saw no sign of any authoritative definition DEFINING such statements as having no truth-value. Let alone claimign that they are meaningless - which Robin denies. And I would suggest that Robin knows better what he meant better than you do.
quote: I don't see the problem here. Any statement that "red is best" either refers to an absolute value - which is, according to you, false since there is no such value - or it refers to a subjective valuation (e.g "red is my favourite colour") which can also be true or false. Or are you claiming that the statement "red is my favourite colour" is meaningless and cannot be true or false ?
quote:This has nothing to do with what I said. My assertion is that all meaningful statements (and I class paradoxes as meaningless for the purposes of this discussion) have a truth value.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Your thoughts here seem to be answered in my previous post, a reply to Faith.
To repeat, then IF "value" is assumed to refer to an objective property and there is no such objective property, then any claim that something is valuable is untrue. If it refers to a subjective property then it may well be true. In neither case is such a statement meaningless or lacking a truth-value. I would add that such a claim is about both the experience and the person - to take it as being about either one alone would be wrong.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I would say that it is not, because arithmetic is not the sort of thing that could be considered "green" in any sense I am aware of.
quote: I don't think that this discussion was about your use of "meaningless". It was about your claim that subjective evaluatiosn had no truth-value. The issue of meaning came in becsuse that entailed that such statements were meaningless.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
The negation of a meaningless statement is autmatically meaningless - that is trivial.
quote: For this to be analagous it cannot be simply the case that value is not objective, it must be the case that it makes no sense to even suggest that value is objective. A false statement is not the same as a meaningless one.
quote: Your argument here is problematic. The experience is watching the movie - not the movie itself. And normally that expereicne will depend on the content of the movie Even if the movie itself is considered not value, it does not negate the fact that it os a part of the value.
quote: It would be evidence that it is valuable for some others. It is unlikely that your situation is so unique that nobody else would find a similar value in the watching.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I think you're still hung up on the question of objectoive versus subjective.
If we accept that there is no objective ranking then any claim to objectively rank one colour over another is necessarily false. On the other hand a subective ranking may well be true - in fact for it to be false you'd either have to be lying or wrong about your own preferences. TO deal with your specific examples
quote: Firstly the judgement has a truth value as I've stated above. Lacking a logical basis does not make a statement meaningless, so the statement in square brackets is a non-sequitur.
quote: That depends if it is meant objectively or subjectively. If it is meant subjectively there would be evidence in your reactions (availabel to you and to a lesser extent those observing you)
quote:The statement in square brackets is another non-sequitur. Subjective judgements aren't meaningless jsut because they are subjective.s
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Seems OK.1
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