A barrier to macroevolution & objections to it

...by flatly ignoring mutation as far as I can see.There is evidence for mutation out there. The ball IS in the court, you just have to stop ignoring it.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

"Starting" still means you don't have a useful definition! You sound like the kid at school who, not having bothered to do his homework, tells the teacher he's "started" it.Before you even begin to think about a limit to speciation you have to define and then locate this "kind" barrier.No such barrier is known to exist except as an ad hoc creation by your good self.

This is a somewhat simplistic way of looking at it. New organs don't just don't appear. We're talking about the accumulation of mutations over three billion years, not spontanious organ generation. They deserve to be be ignored - they are straw-man issues of your own creation.- As far as I'm concerned most mammals, for example, have a strikingly similar body plan. Four limbs, one head, a tail, heart, ribcage etc. The simlarities far outweigh the differences.- "Increased complexity" isn't a problem. Ever seen a picture of a magnified snowflake? This sounds like a warmed over version of YEC thermodynamics nonsense. The Earth is not a closed system.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Here's a nice vid showing some of the current thinking about eye formation. Interesting even if there is still much more for us to learn.Evolution: Library: Evolution of the EyeThe scientific consensus is that mutations are certainly up to the task of organ generation. Furthermore, no barrier to this process has been seen to exist.

I'm not wondering anything except why you are telling me the obvious... But thre IS much evidence ("proof" is a term more suited to mathematics) in support our current understanding of mutation. All you are "doing" is wilfully ignoring evidence because you have no viable counter-hypothesis.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Eh?Nope....You've lost me!

The existence of God, for example?

Links have been posted all over the place in all three mutation threads. Almost every time they have been ignored.There are lots of scientific papers at sites like Pubmed (Home - PMC - NCBI), but YECs often choose to ignore them because they don't have the means to refute them.This link has some great layman examples...
Are Mutations Harmful?Antibiotic resistance in bacteria
Bacteria that eat nylon
Sickle cell resistance to malaria
Lactose tolerance
Resistance to atherosclerosis
Immunity to HIVThere's loads more out there...Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Hehe.Oh really? Answered by a couple of layman YECs with little or no scientific training? Please forgive my incredulity!I'm a scientific layman too, but I know the limits to my knowledge...Anyway, do you have any evidence for a barrier to speciation/limit to mutation?Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Science works by the accumulation of study and knowledge. Just because there are gaps in our understanding doesn't invalidate this hypothesis or the ToE.This is the kind of handwaving that YECs use in response to ToE evidence in order to paper over the fact that they have NO evidence in support of their postion.You asked for evidence, I (and others) have given you just a small taster.Now it's your turn to pony up. Where are the scientific papers that support a barrier to speciation/mutation?

Also worth mentioning that "proof" is not a term suited to empirical observation.Science accumlates evidence (observation) and uses it to make predictions. As it is impossible to observe everything at all times, the empirical validity of a successful scientific theory is constantly strengthened as supporting evidence is gathered and useful predictions are made.A "proof", on the other hand, establishes logical validity (1+1=2). Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

...according to you. Without any evidence to support it this assertion amounts to yet more handwaving. Show us that a barrier to mutation/speciation exists!This is becoming tiresome, MJ. You have been asked for evidence of your assertions by three or four different people. You are not fooling anyone here - we have all seen similar tactics many, many times before.Time to put up or shut up....

Eh? YOU support the assertion that a barrier exists. It is down to you to show it. Please don't play games. Evidence for evolution HAS been observed across many scientific fields. The weight of evidence is such that evolution stands as a full-blown theory. You are supposed to come up with a counter-hypothesis for speciation that better explains what we observe in nature. Evidence for mutation that HAS been observed. I and others have posted examples of the current evidence.It's now your turn.No evidence that indicates a barrier to speciation has been observed by anyone so far. If you believe it exists then it is down to you to show us what observations may uncover it.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

It can be tested in the lab with bacteria.Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.

Trapped by your own analogy!You've just hypothesized an observable "barrier" to humans jumping to the moon.Wasn't too hard was it? So now please give a mechanism which acts as a "barrier" to mutation/speciation..