Author
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Topic: A barrier to macroevolution & objections to it
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Message 250 of 303 (349916)
09-18-2006 7:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 247 by Faith 09-17-2006 8:01 PM
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Inconsistent thinking
Faith writes: Most novel traits do NOT need anything more than a new combination of alleles already present in the population. Apart from the fact that this is a bare assertion that you need to back up with evidence, I would also point out that "most novel traits" does not mean all novel traits. So, by your own admission, there must be novel traits that are not the result of a remixing of existing alleles, but of the much dreaded new alleles. If the barrier this thread is about really exists, then this should not be the case. Edited by Parasomnium, : subtitle "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 247 by Faith, posted 09-17-2006 8:01 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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MJ 's working definition of 'kind'
mjfloresta writes: My working defintion of kind is as stated in other threads: delineated by an organisms ability to interbreed (including via artificial procedures) with other organisms (a.k.a all organisms that can interbreed (including artificially) comprise one kind. In that case, would you be so (ahem) kind to classify the following organisms: an amoeba, a tree-fern and a dandelion, all of which reproduce asexually? There are thousands more I could ask you about, but these three suffice for now. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 257 by mjfloresta, posted 09-18-2006 12:09 PM | | mjfloresta has not replied |
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Message 285 of 303 (350020)
09-18-2006 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 278 by Faith 09-18-2006 2:47 PM
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A strange contradiction
Faith writes: so far I haven't seen that mutation could do anything anyway since the main processes in bringing about new traits reduce genetic diversity a lot faster than the slow process of producing a beneficial mutation ever could keep up with Let's assume that you are right and that those processes do indeed reduce genetic diversity. What does that mean, "reduce genetic diversity"? It means that things become more and more the same, right? I mean, a reduction in diversity must mean an increase in uniformity, or else we need some new definitions of the words 'diversity' and 'uniformity'. So, here's an interesting question for you: how can a process that reduces genetic diversity, a process that leads to more uniformity, how can such a process bring about new traits? It should be painfully obvious that these two effects, the reduction of diversity and the creation of new traits, are contradictory. Please explain how you come up with such a strange concept. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 278 by Faith, posted 09-18-2006 2:47 PM | | Faith has not replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 299 by Jazzns, posted 09-18-2006 5:57 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Re: kind, kinds & half a kind
Hello!? Am I talking to a wall??? MJ, please classify the amoeba, the tree-fern, and the dandelion. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Re: kind, kinds & half a kind
Let me help you. According to your definition of 'kind' they do not belong anywhere, because they reproduce asexually, and therefore fall outside any kind, which you defined as "interbreeding organisms". This means that all bacteria and most plants, to name just a few categories, cannot be classified in kinds. Huge problems, it seems, for creationist biology.
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Re: kind, kinds & half a kind
"Classical science", as you call it, isn't without its problems with regard to 'species', but it isn't religious about it either. If new facts come up, a biologist may have to reconsider the boundaries between species, and this frequently happens. All I did was point to a problem with your definition of 'kind'. Some "new" facts came up: there are organisms that reproduce asexually. Now it's up to you to reconsider the boundaries between kinds. Good luck. Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given. Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given. Edited by Parasomnium, : No reason given. "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 291 by mjfloresta, posted 09-18-2006 3:33 PM | | mjfloresta has not replied |
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