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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: A barrier to macroevolution & objections to it | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
People have made a claim that there is a barrier. Others have said, what barrier? If I put money aside everyday, what limits how much money gets set aside?
Until you and the others can point to such a limiting barrier it is simply a WAG on your part and not anything to be taken seriously. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
How much you have limits it. This is the barrier. Very good. Now how does that limit it? Suppose I continue adding to the pile for the rest of my life? Suppose all of my descendants keep adding to the pile for the rest of their lives? Suppose all of their descendants keep adding to the pile for the rest of their lives? What is the limit on how much money can be in the pile? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As I said, the limit is what you have. You can't add to it if you don't have it. Mutation doesn't have it. So you keep asserting. Once again. I put money in a pile. Each of my descendants keeps putting money in the pile. Each of their descendants keps putting money in the pile. What is the mechanism that limits how much money can be in the pile? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I KNOW mutations happen. But the fact is that populations that get reduced as described DO NOT recover. IN REALITY. They DON'T. Ah, but we do know that populations do go through severe bottlenecks and do recover. Humans have done so. Even under the Flood fantasy humans recovered and in fact ALL species not just recovered by underwhen hyper-macro-catawumpus-look-out-here-it-comes-again diversity gains. In the real world we know that there have been several such bottlenecks for humans, one about 143,000 years ago and another only about 60,000 years ago. So both in the real world and in the fantasy world of the flood, diversity recovery after a severe bottleneck is a given. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You deny the Flood even happened, jar. That is not a matter of belief but rather a conclusion based on all the evidence. BUT... even if the the Flood myth were true, then EVERY species was reduced to only the genetic base of a handful of critters and the total number of critters reduced to the few that would barely crowd one or two little football fields. Yet in the blink of a eye compared to what the evolution model uses, life went from that handfull of genetic material to all of the diversity we see today. As to the bottlenecks in humans, the same basic evidence you use to support your cheetah example is what is used for humans. And there we do see two genetic bottlenecks where the number of humans was reduced. Yet humans recovered from both of those events to the diversity we see today. Of course the TOE requires far less drastic a rate of increase in diversity than any of the Biblical fairytales like the Flood. So where is this barrier that stops macroevolution over long periods of time but also allows it to happen in a blink of an eye when the Biblical Creationists and Floodist want to use it? I put some money in a pile every day for the rest of my life. All of my descendants put money in the pile every day of their lives. Each of their descendants continue the tradition by putting money in the pile every day of their lives. What limits how much money is in the pile? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
to the issues raised in Message 140 and Message 143.
Faith, we can look around and see the diversity that exists today. That needs to be explained. The TOE explains what is seen today AND the record that has been left. You must present a model that does a BETTER job of explaining the diversity that is seen today. Where is the model that better explains the diversity seen today as well as the record of past critters, and where is the evidence that supports that model? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Built-in genetic potentials play out in all the diversity that is seen. Pre-existing alleles in a population are all it takes to bring about speciation. A nice bit of throwing a plate of spaghetti on the ceiling to see what sticks perhaps but certainly not a model of anything. To reiterate
to the issues raised in Message 140 and Message 143. Faith, we can look around and see the diversity that exists today. That needs to be explained. The TOE explains what is seen today AND the record that has been left. You must present a model that does a BETTER job of explaining the diversity that is seen today. Where is the model that better explains the diversity seen today as well as the record of past critters, and where is the evidence that supports that model? Where is the evidence for your super genome and all them alleles? And yes, still waiting for a response to the questions raised in Message 140 and Message 143. In case your links are not working, here is the body of message 143.
BUT... even if the the Flood myth were true, then EVERY species was reduced to only the genetic base of a handful of critters and the total number of critters reduced to the few that would barely crowd one or two little football fields. Yet in the blink of a eye compared to what the evolution model uses, life went from that handfull of genetic material to all of the diversity we see today. As to the bottlenecks in humans, the same basic evidence you use to support your cheetah example is what is used for humans. And there we do see two genetic bottlenecks where the number of humans was reduced. Yet humans recovered from both of those events to the diversity we see today. Of course the TOE requires far less drastic a rate of increase in diversity than any of the Biblical fairytales like the Flood. So where is this barrier that stops macroevolution over long periods of time but also allows it to happen in a blink of an eye when the Biblical Creationists and Floodist want to use it? I put some money in a pile every day for the rest of my life. All of my descendants put money in the pile every day of their lives. Each of their descendants continue the tradition by putting money in the pile every day of their lives. What limits how much money is in the pile? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The issues brought up in Message 140, Message 143 and in Message 198 are still wait for the model that explains how you explain the growth in diversity since the alleged Flood.
In case you can't find them, here is a summary of the content:
BUT... even if the the Flood myth were true, then EVERY species was reduced to only the genetic base of a handful of critters and the total number of critters reduced to the few that would barely crowd one or two little football fields. Yet in the blink of a eye compared to what the evolution model uses, life went from that handfull of genetic material to all of the diversity we see today. As to the bottlenecks in humans, the same basic evidence you use to support your cheetah example is what is used for humans. And there we do see two genetic bottlenecks where the number of humans was reduced. Yet humans recovered from both of those events to the diversity we see today. Of course the TOE requires far less drastic a rate of increase in diversity than any of the Biblical fairytales like the Flood. So where is this barrier that stops macroevolution over long periods of time but also allows it to happen in a blink of an eye when the Biblical Creationists and Floodist want to use it? I put some money in a pile every day for the rest of my life. All of my descendants put money in the pile every day of their lives. Each of their descendants continue the tradition by putting money in the pile every day of their lives. What limits how much money is in the pile? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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