Did Jesus lie ?

We walk in an open heaven.
In heaven as here on earth. You'll have to prove that, not just say it. Generation can mean lots of things. No He doesn't.You need to stop grabbing bible verses and using them for your own purposes, and start trying to understand what is being said.It's funny that you grab Matthew 24:15, and then comment that He expects them to live through the end, when exactly 6 verses before, He tells them they are going to die.(I want to make an award, just like post of the month, I want it to be taking out of context of the month award)Matthew 24:9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

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14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

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What things are to be done? Is you can answer that, then you can define the word generation, then use it context.

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14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

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18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

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Well this hasn't happened yet, but we are real close to it happening. So John clearly knew that it wasn't his generation, but this generation. You mean the gospel according to legend. Who could possibly follow Jesus when you see things the way you do. You have a warped view of who and what Jesus is. Your faith is at 0. Maybe you should seek God for guidance, and ask Him to enter your life, so that you can see clearly.And please, don't call me delusional, that is a subjective opinion, full of emotion coming from someone who is supposedly all about logic and objectiveness. Who are you kidding? Yourself?Edited by riVeRraT, : fixed quote

that's nice. Now, when was God's Kingdom revealed ? And where in the Bible do you get that idea from ? I think you need to read your bible a little bit more because it's you who doesn't understand what's being said!This is a sequential description of events. If in Matt 24:9 Jesus says they're all going to die, then how can he ony a few verses later tell them that they shall see the desolation, that "...then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not." . How can they do all that if they're dead ??But the clincher is in the parallel passage in Luke (emphasis is mine) :"And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death. " ( Luk 21:16)
"And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. " (Luk 21:17 )
"But there shall not an hair of your head perish. " (Luk 21:18 )so, as you hopefully can now see, Jesus believed that at least some of the disciples will live through the tribulation. He expected them to survive the disaster to see him coming, to live to the end so they can be redeemed:"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. " (Luk 21:27)
"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. "( Luk 21:28 ) or maybe I could read the Bible and see what Jesus said and did, instead of imagining it. You should try it sometime!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

errr.......I hate to break it to you but 'generation' means 'generation'. The Greek word used in the Septuagint is "genea" which refers to a specific generation in time.Throughout the gospels the same word ("genea") is used to the same effect, e.g.:
(Matt 1:17) "...fourteen generations from Abraham to David".
(Matt 12:41),"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:...."This is crystal clear in Jesus's apocalyptic prophecy where he repeatedly refers to things that will happen to or around the disciples. Just count the number of times the word "You" appears in Matt 24:Take heed that no man deceive you." (Matt 24:4)
"...ye shall hear of wars, and rumours of wars..." (Matt 24:6)
"Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted..." (Matt 24:9)
"When ye therefore shall see the the abomination of desolation..." (Matt 24:15)
"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter..." (Matt 24:20)But even if you don't believe Jesus (which apparently you don't) here's what Paul thinks about the end days (emphasis is mine):( 1 Thess 4:15-17) "...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout...Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air..."
(1 Corinth 15:51,52) "...We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump..."
(Romans 13:11-12) "And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand..."see, Paul was part of Jesus's generation. And -unlike you- he took Jesus at his word and expected him to descend on the clouds and pick them all up in heavenly glory. The sad part is that, rather than admitting it, today's Christians have to twist Jesus's words to make him fit into the mythical world that is modern Christianity. Too bad!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Don't you get it, this is God's kingdom, just part of it. That is a metaphore refering to the eternal life they weill gain by standing their ground. Tell you didn't understand that one?Do you read study bibles, or concordances, or notes?
There are verse associated with verses, that explain everything pretty clearly. Jesus was, and is not concerned with life here on earth. It is an irrelevant thought when you think in terms of eternal life. When reading the bible you must be at least considering eternal life, since this is what Jesus mostly focused on, and how to get there.You are reading assuming death means death, and not life. We all get redeemed at the appropiate time. But not without asking Jesus to let you understand what is meant. I never read the bible without asking God to reveal to me what I need to know. You cannot take what you have learned from this world, and apply it 100% to reading the bible literally. Then you are no better than Brian, or a literalist.Jesus gives us the Holy Spirit to live by, maybe you should just focus on that, and what that is supposed to mean.

Oh, so there is no difference between "my generation" and "this generation"?
What's hte problem in understanding what I am saying. You cannot accept that your absolute definition of generation could be wrong? A perect example of two different meanings of generation. It's all in the context in which you say it.In MAtt 1:17 it is refering to family generations, which change at the birth of every new set of siblings. Could be periods of 20 years, give or take.
In Matt 12:41 they are talking about a whole group of people living during a specific time, it doesn't matter how many times children have children. Could be a period of 100years, give or take.Listen to the Beatles song, talking bout my generation.
There are generations of convenants.

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gen·er·a·tion (jn-rshn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "generations" [P]
n.

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1. All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor: Mother and daughters represent two generations.
2. Biology. A form or stage in the life cycle of an organism: asexual generation of a fern.
3. The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.
4.
1. A group of individuals born and living about the same time.
2. A group of generally contemporaneous individuals regarded as having common cultural or social characteristics and attitudes: “They're the television generation” (Roger Enrico).
5.
1. A stage or period of sequential technological development and innovation.
2. A class of objects derived from a preceding class: a new generation of computers.
6. The formation of a line or geometric figure by the movement of a point or line.
7. The act or process of generating; origination, production, or procreation.

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Look at the first definition. We are part of a generation living under what Christ did for us, it is already been 2000 years, all part of the same generation. Great, who was Paul writing too then?
What was John talking about in Revelation?
No-one know the time except the Father,
All the end time prophecies, like the earth turning to fire,
Armegeddon?
There are way too many references to a time that strectches way beyond just their generation, and speaks to our generation, of living under Christ. You'll have to do better. What gets me, is how you think you have it all explained, like no-one before you in the last 2000 years could have figured it out the way you did.If your not going to believe what it says, then that's up to you. But the only way your going to start to understand is to seek God more in His word.You have falsified the whole bible, congradulations.So let me ask you this. Take into consideration that God will forgive anything, except blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit exists today?Edited by AdminPD, : WarningEdited by AdminPD, : Warning Typo

Legend and RiverRat,Please keep to the topic and leave out the useless personal comments and accusations.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you Edited by AdminPD, : Title Typo

I get that's what you think. What I don't get is when did it begin and where in the Bible do you base your opinion ? it's a simple question.

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"But there shall not an hair of your head perish. " (Luk 21:18 )

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so...are the previous verses (they shall be betrayed, hated, killed, wars, desolation, etc) metaphors too? or are we just choosing the verses that don't suit us and calling them metaphors ? I do. I also read the Bible. Do you ? excuse me....?! aren't you the one who wrote :

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You need to stop grabbing bible verses and using them for your own purposes, and start trying to understand what is being said.

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you're not seriously suggesting that we now grab other verses out of context and use them to explain the difficulties, are you ? then why is Jesus repeatedly telling people how to live life here on earth in order to gain eternal life ? (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, Mark 10:30, Luke 18:18, et al) errmm...yes..I tend to read the Bible assuming that the words mean what they say they mean.
In my twisted, warped interpretation 'death' means 'death' and 'this generation' means the generation of the people he's addressing, not some future, or everlasting generation.
I realize now that's what I've been doing wrong. I'll try to change. maybe but Jesus is talking about the disciples and about a specific time.Maybe you missed it, here it is again (emphasis mine)

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"And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. "( Luk 21:28 )

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when will they be redeemed ? here it is again:

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"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand." ( Luk 21:31 )

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and by when will it all have happened ?

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Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. ( Luk 21:32 )

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why is this so difficult to understand ? you don't have to ask Jesus or the Holy Spirit it's all there in black and white.

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

that's not what I said. I said that by 'this generation' he clearly means the generation of his audience (disciples) and -by extension- his own. there's nothing absolute about it. I've already explained that in Message 48. Both semantically and in the context in which it's given it can only mean the generation of Jesus's disciples. if you think otherwise, feel free to show me wrong. oK, for discussion's sake I'll accept that. Now then, which of the two meanings above is Jesus using when he says "this generation shall not pass away until these things are fulfilled" ?

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gen·er·a·tion (jn-rshn) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "generations" [P]
n.

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1. All of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor: Mother and daughters represent two generations.
2. Biology. A form or stage in the life cycle of an organism: asexual generation of a fern.
3. The average interval of time between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring.
4.
1. A group of individuals born and living about the same time.

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?? but none of those definitions cover what you're saying here! we're not Jesus's offspring we don't live at the same time as him and a generation doesn't last 2000 years!Also, Jesus is not addressing us when he says 'this generation' he's addressing the disciples who've asked him when will the end come. (again, look at the word 'you', e.g. you will see desolation, you will be hated, etc. )whichever way you look at it, Jesus is saying that the end times will come within the lifetime of the people of his generation. His generation has been dead and buried for nearly 2000 years now. We're still waiting!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

It was not off-topic what I was saying to him. The topic is, is Jesus a liar.
The only way I can see to prove to him that Jesus wasn't a liar, is by him seeking the Holy Spirit which Jesus's promises. Then he would understand, by the power of the Holy Spirit, that Jesus was not a liar.

No they are not metaphores. Those types of things will always happen to those who believe AND follow. So will eternal life.
Jesus talks much about eternal life, and perishing. Yes, but I am not a literalist. You said you read the bible. If you notice, there are little notations that lead you to other verses, which help explain the ones you are reading. There are verses that can be taken literally, and some that are metaphores. It also helps to understand the times, so that we can relate it to today. By linking to those other verses, it helps you to understand it better. Because the focus is on eternal life.
You must concentrate on what is unseen, for what is unseen lasts forever. Before Jesus, and after the garden, the devil ruled the earth. Now Jesus rules the earth. Praise God. Ok then, what does this mean?7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."What is the Holy Spirit? Was Jesus lying about that as well? That's funny, in your attempt to give the word generation a single definition, you give it two.Death can also have multiple meanings in the bible. There is spiritual death, and physical death.By you not understanding the meanings, then yes, Jesus would appear as a liar to you. If your sincere about that, that is great. But don't do it solely because I suggest it. It is extremely important that you focus on God, and listen for His voice regarding the matter. This verse is evidence that the word generation means something more that what you thought it meant.Part of the beauty of the bible, is it's multiple meanings and definitions. There is no absolute. But God's word is there. The only way we can connect with the bible, is through the power of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus promised us, and by focusing on God. Without that, then yes, the bible becomes a fairy tale, and full of things we cannot understand.I understand that first hand, because when I started reading the bible from a small child, 95% of it did not make any sense to me, and it all seemes like lies. Most of it still didn't make sense to me, 30+ years later. It was when God revealed the Holy Spirit to me, that it all made sense, and on that day I either went crazy, or I met God. However, God's word when read plants seeds in you that will grow. They get planted because we are born to worship, and born to seek God.

1. A group of individuals born and living about the same time.We are still in that time. It will last until Jesus comes back. Right now, according to this discussion, WE are disciples. We are seeking Christ in His fullness through power of His word. I hope you start your waiting on the Holy Spirit. yep.

Only because I think you are responding to the purple Off Topic tag and not the Admin warning, am I not going to give you a suspension for not taking your Admin Action concerns to the Moderation Thread.This is a debate, not counseling. You need to be able to make your point now, not send your opponent on a spiritual journey.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

.......??we're still living at the same time with the group of individuals Jesus was talking to when he said "this generation shall not pass away until these things are fulfilled" ??wow!!!... I mean..wow!! again...???you are the one that gave all these definitions of what a generation is and there's not a single one which states that a generation lasts 2000 years or infinitely or until Jesus comes or whatever else you're trying to make it out to be.not only you're twisting Jesus's words, you're also making up your own. I am now going to find a brick wall to bang my head against.I'll be back when I recover consciousness.Tata!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Yes, I explained it thouroughly in Message 50I think not. You could look at the time the whole human race existed, and call it a generation. There is no time limit set forth ny the definition of the word generation.
If GM decided to produce the camaro (oh I hope so) for the next 1500 years using the same frame, it would be considered a generation. Jesus didn't come to make us Christians, He came to make us disciples. He told them to make disciples of all the world.If we are discussing this, and how it works, then we are acting as disciples, what's wrong with that?

No, it would not. Car makers are constantly talking about "the next generation of fuel injection technology", "the next generation of aerodynamic body design", etc.A "generation" always refers to a less-than-infinite period of time. The word "generation" is used specifically to distinguish one period of time from another - e.g. "my generation" as opposed to "my father's generation".Your thoughts on Jesus' use of "this generation" make Him look like an idiot rather than a liar.

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