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Author Topic:   Knowing God
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 1 of 93 (358240)
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


What is a relationship with Jesus like?
How does one know this relationship is real?
Is knowing Jesus anything more than a feeling - how so?
I've never known Jesus. I'd like to know how to recognize the feelings that clearly demonstrate to you Jesus is real.
Is it the opinion of the faithful I block out these feelings, fail to acknowledge them or am unable to possess them?
Why can you know Jesus and not me?
Why has Jesus allowed you to have a relationship with him and not me? If Jesus has accepted me and entered into a relationship with me I have not seen it. I have not felt it. I have not heard it. I have no evidence it exists. Am I doing something wrong? I do not think I am bad.
My daughter is 8 - she does not know Jesus. Jesus has never reached out to her - why not? My son is 12; he does not live with me. His mother took him 1,500 miles away from me. She is religious. My son he knows Jesus. Why does Jesus talk to my son not my daughter?
In order to know Jesus I must know what to look for. I must know where to look and how to find him. The only time I had a friend I could not see was when I was 6. I feel kind of foolish entering into another relationship like this - is this feeling justified?
How do you know you know Jesus? How do you know your children know they know Jesus? Can you help me know Jesus knows me? Is it ok to know something I can not heae, see, smell, touch or taste? Is it ok to say I know I know something even if I know in this lifetime I will never have evidence to demonstrate the claims I claim to know are true - other than me stating I know it is true.
What I really want to know is how do you know you know Jesus? How do you form a relationship for something that is 'not there'(I use that loosely). How do you know Jesus loves you - what does this feel like?
This is a serious question. Possibly one of the most important questions on the forum - has it been asked. I apologize if it has. If I am asked to clarify simply put:
*How do you know Jesus loves you? When compared to love we know what does the love of Jesus feel like. I am missing it and want to recognize it.
*How do we know this is real - this feeling, emotion; this “THING” that makes us (you) know you know Jesus.
PTD
Ps
Possibly this question is not appropriate for this forum. I feel it would fit in on the Faith section. I also feel the ability for a theist to clearly articulate what 'knowing god is'. The theist also needs to demonstrate how this specific knowing is different than other knowings or feelings. Possibly we all know or feel it and simply overlook it. If this is infact the case we can no longer do this. I can no longer do it for the sake of my daughter.

We are born, we live then we die.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 2:11 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM PurpleTeddyBear has replied
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 10-23-2006 9:04 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 11 by jar, posted 10-23-2006 10:32 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 44 by mark24, posted 10-27-2006 8:51 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 46 by Dubious Drewski, posted 10-28-2006 2:39 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 47 by iano, posted 10-28-2006 9:03 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 85 by macaroniandcheese, posted 11-08-2006 2:49 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 86 by purpledawn, posted 11-08-2006 7:04 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 87 by riVeRraT, posted 11-22-2006 2:46 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 92 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-26-2006 1:45 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 5 of 93 (358265)
10-23-2006 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
10-23-2006 2:11 AM


Weak answer
Since when does having a relationship with anyone ever have anything to do with reading and believing their biography. Why/how did you form that conclusion? I do not think you simply misunderstood my question. That was a terribly answer. You, ”cherry picked', read what you wanted to read and ignored the rest - shame on you.
Can you define, describe and explain what a "sense of relatedness" is? When I have a sense of relatedness to Christ I want to know I know it! What could be more important?
Is this relatedness with Jesus the same as the relatedness I feel with my mother? Or is it more like the relatedness I share with my cousin I have never seen? Again - what is this 'relatedness '(knowing) like. How do I recognize this internal feeling?
PS
You get an F. I would request everyone better address the question, ask for clarification or not answer.
PPS - sort of off topic. But, I am curious. According to your logic:
Is this 'knowing him'(Jesus) restricted to just Scripture? Or could I get this "feeling" this "sense of relatedness" this "knowing I know him" or this “gut instinct” if I just read non-canonical gospel, other written material (which may be undiscovered), writings by historians and the Talmud? Or can this “thing”(sense of relatedness - LET’S CALL IT SOR from now on) come only from reading the NT?
Their seem to be many specific rules to obtaining an SOR with Jesus. Can we lay them all out - THANKS!

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 2:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 10-23-2006 9:19 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 10-23-2006 12:04 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 12-07-2006 8:56 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 6 of 93 (358268)
10-23-2006 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
10-23-2006 8:15 AM


Re: Knowing God
Sorry, I did not quote my last post. It was to 'the previous poster' not you, Author. I skimmed your answer and feel it demands a rely. However, I must go to work. I will respond by the close of the day. Thank you for taking the time.
Edited by PurpleTeddyBear, : No reason given.

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:33 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 8 of 93 (358271)
10-23-2006 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
10-23-2006 8:15 AM


Re: Knowing God
quote:
Its very similar to the way we know anything is real, really
quote:
nature of reality
quote:
spiritually dead to the things of God
quote:
here is no proof that what our eyes and ears tranmit is true - we just know that it is.
quote:
had that relationship then you would have to have evidence for it.
quote:
**evidence you would have is called faith**
quote:
everybody is born 'bad'.
quote:
To be radios switched on.
quote:
He attempts to bring them to see their need for him
quote:
they will cry out to him for that relationship
quote:
Blindness is the predominant description of a spiritually dead person
quote:
**I sensed something had changed fundamentally
quote:
Everything (irrespective of what might happen to me from now on: bike crashes, job loss, sickness, death) was going to be "okay".
quote:
"Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" says Paul in Romans 12
quote:
This is a process: sometimes things are removed straightaway, sometimes they are dissolved over time as we cooperate with him in being changed. But he promises that come hell or high water we will be changed - even if we decide to make it tough for him to do so. "If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed". Again we often don't realize how weighed down we are until the weight is removed "come to me all ye who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest" he says.
I apologize I really have to goto work. However, your post was amazing - I loved it. Please do not take this negative but I do feel as if I am in the twilight zone. I feel like a kid playing dungeons and dragons - you are the dragon master, BEAM ME UP SCOTTIE! Please keep in mind you did say,
quote:
This may sound confusing
Oh yes, I am confused now! Hopefully you can help with that.
Lets consider the above(I got way through your post). Other than the reference to Paul are these above quotes anything more than your personal opinion? Can you back them up with reference in the scripture which comes directly from god - not man. Thus far it seems important to know Jesus I must read this book - the bible. Let’s discuss it but not get too off topic. Can you reference the above comments? they just subjective opinion? I will be late for work now but loved that post!
PPS sorry, sorry I am in a rush. The above quotes all may not have foundation in the bible. These are just topics we must discuss and I wanted to give you time to digest the topics I had interest in. So, I understand all the quotes may not need be referenced. Please deal with those that can.
Edited by PurpleTeddyBear, : No reason given.
Edited by AdminPD, : Style

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 10:54 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied
 Message 14 by AdminPD, posted 10-23-2006 12:17 PM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 82 of 93 (362407)
11-07-2006 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by purpledawn
11-02-2006 8:03 AM


Here I are!
First let me say this thread grew too rapidly for me to follow. Although I am responsind to 'the entire' thread I simply have not had time to read it all. I am responding to what was the entire thread when I started my response - does that make sense(about as confusing as god, right). I mention this because if a point I am making has been discussed point me in that direction rather than jump down my throat and tug on my scrotum - ya dig? I wish I had more time to dick around on the net. All my dicking time was spent chatting with PHAT
I am going to respond to about 50 things 15 individuals said - it has been a while since I have followed up.
My first concern is the word, "belief" has been thrown around a lot. This is a dangerous word. Anyone who holds a belief they feel understand may not be true will most likely be able to accept this. Others well - LET THE DEBATE BEGIN! "Belief - A conclusion which was arrived at based on personal opinion, understanding and evidence'.
Often if not always the believer refuses to admit there is an outstanding chance they could be incorrect.
When dealing with issues of faith I think it is acceptable to remove the word, “often “ and replace it with always. 'The believer of faith based belief always refuses to admit their belief could be incorrect.'
[quote]believing what has been written about Him in the scriptures[quote]
quote:
and believing what He has said.
.
A belief that one knows: one knows christ is no more acceptable than a belief one knows they know Elvis is alive. However, for some reason if someone has a belief they know they know JC is real it is unacceptable to challenge it. If one knows they know Elvis is real they are medicated right away. The degree to which one is convinced this belief is true, the amount of passion one puts into a belief or the fact one is willing do die for a belief is not acceptable evidence the believing(knowing they know) is true.
Many of the responses seemed to reflect the following train of thought,
quote:
How does one know this is real? In the same way as we know that what our eyes and ears transmit to us about the world is real. We just know it. There is no proof that what our eyes and ears tranmit is true - we just know that it is.
Are you seriously suggesting we push universal skepticism forward? How do we know anything is real? How do we know we are infact communicating now? How do we know this isn't a dream? How do we know we are not someone's dream? Someone watched too The Matrix too much(I Know I have great flicks, no shit). However, someone crossed the line. I will gladly detail and discuss such crap if deemed mandatory. But, I feel enough said here right, folks? "god is real because: 'god is real' and I know I know him" is shaky ground. God is real because reality is real seems abusive to the word, some form of trickery (linguistically contortions) it seems something like my 8 year old says. Truthfully I am not sure what you are getting at. Could please re-explain. “Our eyes and ears could lie”?
quote:
It’s being able to talk to the air or to the empty room and having a comforting feeling that you are not talking to yourself
.
Heh, LOL, OH MY JESUS GOD! I GOTTA PEE! This is simply your justification of you talking to air. If anyone else talked to air or claimed to be talking to anything other than YHWH - boogie man, spaghetti monster, Hitler, Elvis, aliens or leprechauns we would seek help for them immediately. I am going to vomit I am laughing so hard!
Here it is! My favorite,
quote:
Describing feelings won't do it. The only way to meet Christ is in the Bible -- believing it -- there is no other way. You have to know who it is you want to know before you can know him, otherwise whatever feelings you get may not be Christ at all. AND you must be born again.
.
This is how Hitler operated before he brutally, slaughtered, murdered and tortured almost every Jew in his country. Speech after public speech after public speech he reassured what he said was true. An elite group of men was formed (SS) they shouted his same message. An elite group of youth was formed (HM). Within these groups an elite board was elected. The only to justify the slaughter of the innocent was simply to unlearn what you have learned and accept the other side. Come-on now - I am in my late 20s. Not some 10 year old child. In order for you to be an anti-theist you have to stop being a theist and try being an anti-theist for a few months. When you are an anti-theist you simply accept everything anti-theist have written as true.
(PS - this same type of logic is how suicide bombers recruit. I forget the name but NBC aired an outstanding show, like 20/20 on this, possibly I will look for it)
I will stop here to see maddening behavior this digs up. I am only 1/4 through the list (15 people 50 'things')
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Major Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by purpledawn, posted 11-02-2006 8:03 AM purpledawn has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by AdminPD, posted 11-07-2006 1:06 PM PurpleTeddyBear has replied

  
PurpleTeddyBear
Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days)
Posts: 21
From: Brownsburg, Indiana, USA
Joined: 10-22-2006


Message 84 of 93 (362471)
11-07-2006 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by AdminPD
11-07-2006 1:06 PM


Jesus?
My real intent is to know how people know they know Jesus. As a parent if Jesus is real, I must know. Although I am more open to the boogie man or Bigfoot being real if Jesus exists I must know. Nothing in this world could be more important than knowing if Jesus is real. If Jesus is real and he is I have no choice to follow and love him. I gladly retract my remarks about ”maddening behavior’ -Voosh . I also apologize for my inability to properly quote posts of others. I've said some 'brash' things in Chat. I will not retract them these. If this gets me banned or pushed away so be it. However, I understand the general comments about my opinions I posted on public forum - be nice or go home.
Make no mistake I am an Atheist. I live in the USA(Brownsburg, Indiana). In the USA christianity is the most popular religion. Because of this I must focus my concern on christianity. I feel we intelligent adults must do everything within their power to end the spread of christianity immediately. Just as we would work to quickly stop the spread of small pox we must do the same with christianity. Short of violence I am open to any available methods to do this. I feel my role is a parent and the demand life places on me to protect my daughter are demands I take immediate action. I have not found my seat, my niche within ”atheism’ or anti-christian movement yet. I am not sure where I belong, what I can do or how I can help. I know posting here is not the best use of my time. Briefly, this 2,000 religion based on the misconception of men has nothing positive to lend to my daughter or myself. I will also go a step farther and say it has nothing positive to offer society. The grip christianity has held on this country has and will only continue to drag us down in every aspect of our lives. If no one will step forward I will carry the burden. Again I am not suggesting violence but I am more than a typer. I am receptive to hear about or become part of good ideas. Not for me but for my family. (Everyone knows my position now. No one in the future can ever again imply I attempted to mislead them).
However, on the off chance I am mistaken. If every other religion is/has been wrong and christianity is real I have no concern admitting my mistakes. If my option is to suffer in hell or live in happiness whit my family it is not a difficult decision. It is my opinion if god is good and Jesus is real and the pictures churches paint of him in 2007 are accurate I must know him. I must be saved. It is also my opinion if this is real and not ancient mythology Jesus wants to meet me and must be working somehow behind the scenes to assist me in knowing him.
Before I can be saved I must know how others know and understand there religion is correct. I must know how someone knows Jesus is real and the boogie man is not. I must know how someone knows Jesus is real and Thor is not. I must know how someone knows Jesus is real and Allah is not. I am not looking for personal opinions. This issue is too important to be based on personal opinion alone. Hard evidence is demanded in ever other sphere of out lives. A psychologist or doctor who told us a pill would extend our lives or enlarge our penises we would demand proof and evidence. For some reason religion is the only taboo topic that is off limits to critique and a necessity to clearly demonstrate with logical evidence it is true. This blows my frick’n mind. Again, I offer more about who I am so no one can accuse me of being misleading.
I apologize for not quoting properly - you did call me out on this once before. I am not very good at articulating my thoughts to paper. Nor am I terribly internet savvy. I feel much more can be accomplished face to face. However, I opted to be here and you allow me to stay. I will do my best to learn the INs and OUTs of posting on this forum.
I am receptive to speaking with anyone on the phone to address or answer my concerns or meeting in paper. I will gladly give out my personal information in PM at my risk.
If I violated any rules and an apology is not acceptable to mend my evil deeds I shall accept the closing of my thread - although I know it is crap.
I do not wish to digress from my original message. I wish to pick up with my last questions from there. If anyone has any questions or concerns with what I have said here address them in Private
--Tony
Contents should have been in Moderation Thread.
Edited by AdminPD, : If you must view the contents use the peek button.

We are born, we live then we die.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by AdminPD, posted 11-07-2006 1:06 PM AdminPD has not replied

  
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