Developing Countries: Birth Control?

I would like to read your paper that you wrote. It sounds like you have a reasonable way of solving the problem.The only thing that concerns me, is how to improve the well-being of people in the developing nations without adding additional strains on the world. Developed nations strain the world, and I wonder how much more the world could take of such lifestyles.J0N

You want to reduce the number living in poverty by reducing the number living. That sickens me.

I guess you are right, I am a dog, a no good. I have no right to an opinion at all. After all, I don't vote (which to you seems the most godly thing any creature on Earth could do given the chance).I don't vote, but I can still voice my opinion. A lot of people don't/can't vote, and they still find ways to vioce their opinions; to make their message heard. How did women ever gain the right to vote? They certainly didn't vote for officials that would give it to them. No, they just stated their opinions, in the paper, on the street, and I'm sure they would've done the same in forums just like this if it had been around back then.There are MANY more ways to voice your opinion and to participate in government than to simply vote. Last year I actively participated in a campaign against cutting funding to higher education.Of course, that didn't count, since I never voted.J0Np.s. Oh, and no more about voting, that's a different topic for a different thread!

No one has yet addressed what I said, either. If everyone here gets their wish, and the people in developing nations stop reproducing, what will be left of those nations? When all those adults die of old age, who will be there to replace them? Army tanks? Oil rigs?C'mon now, your ideas that people in developing countries should just stop having kids are silly. You know, despite the huge number of kids they have, not all make it to adult-hood. What if they decided to have fewer? How many would make it to adult-hood then?I'll get back to answering all of your questions, when you all tell me why only the people in developed countries should be able to have children and further the existance of their society. And remember, if you adopt them out of that society, and in to your own, it does nothing to further their own society.J0N

That's silly. These "greedy, selfish assholes" are the people who make the goods and services that you and I use everyday. Producing these goods and services in a manner that makes them affordable enough by all the people living in the developed countries is what adds strain to the world. It's not these people in particular that do it. It's the lifestyle of EVERYONE who lives in the countries. They are the ones who use tons of paper (killing trees), or drive millions of miles (poluting the air), or use electricity, throw things in the garbage, etc.It is the lifestyle that strains the world. Remember what I said earlier: that a child born in a developed country puts a far greater strain that a larger number born in a developing country? No where did I mention "greedy, selfish assholes who own 90% of the world's wealth..."Oh, and about the refusing to share thing; it's THEIR MONEY! Good greif! Bill Gates is the world's wealthiest man, and he worked his ass off for every penny he's worth! What the hell makes you think he owes anyone else a damn dime!? Oh, and despite that, he still DOES give out tons of money to charities around the world.Now, I know you may feel bad that you don't have that kind of money, but you can't expect them to give up their hard-earned money just because you don't have any. Some people always think they deserve a handout!J0N

Are you sure? Because ever since I've opened this thread my opinion's been nothing but attacked. Everyone has been laying into me with both fangs out, and the only people who even partially agree with me have just dissapeared, probably wanting no part in the slamming you've been laying on me!

And it takes a LOT of work to get to that point. And having gotten to that point is a reward for the hard and risky business work you've done. And besides, sweating labour isn't the only kind of work out there. Mental work can be equally as demanding. When was the last time you started a billion dollar software company? I mean, if it were so easy and you don't do any work at all, why aren't more people starting such businesses? Is this the only thing you know how to say? Time and time you've said I am young and ignorrant. If you ask me, I think it's just a cop-out so you don't really have to address any true problems. Just slap a label on my morals and beliefs and you can sit back and relax.Well, my morals and my world experience aren't related. I mean, how damn old were you when you first decided murder was wrong? Morals are internal, instinctive, something you feel and know is right. And, when I grow up and experience the world I will see it your way, eh?This thread isn't about me, it isn't about you, and it isn't about Bill Gates. So, I think we should get back to the topic and perhaps you could explain your solution and how that will not unequally shift the balance of power in the world more than it is. How it won't deprive individuals of their basic human rights, and how it will not add a significant amount of strain on an already stressed-out planet.J0NEdited by Jon, : Spelling/grammar

If you adopt a baby from one of those countries. Will you adopt a healthy one, or one dying of some strange incurable disease? And if you do adopt a healthy one, and we all followed you and your "wisdom" and adopted babies (adopting the healthy ones), what would be left in the developing countries?About all that other crap, I may have responded to other people's opinions in a reply to you. Sorry.J0N

You're a dick, and I'll never agree with you or your opinion. No matter how long I "cool down". Hell, I ain't even angy; are you?

Saying that is like saying senior citizens are easily manipulated. Now, if you start saying that to the seniors, how many do you think will still keep listening to your opinion, or give a rat's ass what you have to say?I respond as I do because you beat me down and call me ignorant. You attack ME over and over and over and over and over again, and you never attack the issue. And you STILL haven't answered what will happen if we adopt all the children out of poverty!And all this crap about getting through to me, as if the moment you explain it, I'll understand and agree with you and believe your solution. Once I experience life, I'll just see everything the way you do, won't I? You are all wise, aren't you?Now, you say it all the time about me being an ignorant unexperienced teenager, which is a constant personal attack. Now, I am not going to debate any points in here with someone who attacks me on a personal level.And to Gasby, you're close to crossing the line with being on a personal attack, and if you do, I won't likely respond to you either.Miss-cheif really didn't even attack me all like you guys did, and she even apologized for it. If only everyone could act in such a grown-up manner J0NI can certainly tell that it's your wish that we would be able to adopt them all in an ideal situation.

See, this is an unfair solution. The people who can feed and medicate their children are the wealthy privilaged people who live in developed countries, or the few who live in developing ones. To me, it doesn't seem right that these people should be the only people to reproduce. Because after they have done all their reproducing, and the developing areas haven't done any, who will be left? Only people who lived privilaged lives. It would be a nice way to permanantly get rid of the problem of poverty and starvation: we would simply be ridding the world of the starving poor people. But is that really fair?And besides, people in developing areas of the world can sort of support their children. You said kids are the future, and these people feel the same way. Look a it from their perspective. They can't completely support one child, and because of this, there is a chance that the child might become sick, and dies. Or that the little food they feed it won't be enough. Either way, they can only sort of support the child, and there is a slight risk that said child may die. However, they still need a child to grow old and support the family one day. So, they have six kids, knowing that many of them will probably die, but also knowing that at least one will survive. That way, if kid 3 dies, he has a quick and ready replacement: kid 4.I know, it may seem harsh and horrible to think of children being replaceable, but it happens like this all over the world in all sorts of animal communities. Cats have tons of kittens (so cute too ) and dogs, and fish. They all give birth to multiple numbers knowing that some will probably die.In developing nations things are not much different. Unlike developed countries and areas where each child is almost guaranteed survival, these people don't have the comfort of knowing that. They are looking to their future, and must create as many children as possible hoping that at least a few of them survive to continue their culture.The other option would be to work to bring all these developing areas into the status of developed. But, as I've remarked before, how can this be done without completely overstraining the world's resources? How can we have everyone in the world using resources and poluting as much as the developed countries already do?J0N

You act very much like the classic psychologist who says that you cannot solve a problem without first admitting to it, and that denying the existance of a problem is a clear sign of a problem being present.Now, you have added unrest to my threads, and I cannot help but feel you either:a) dislike like me (in which case you need to get over it)
or
b) actually feel like I am an ignorant fool who you can "save" from ingorance (in which case you need to get over yourself)Now, the topic was about birth control in developing countries. Who decided to make it an opportunity for attacking my voting beliefs? So, whether you are attacking me, or my beliefs is irrelivant for the most part. You nit-pickety attack each of my beliefs, whether relevant to the topic or not. What I believe about voting has nothing to do with the problem of death and disease in developing areas of the world--nothing at all.Why did you add it? I cannot even begin to guess, only to say that it seemed as though you had found yourself a perfect opportunity to bring up an old discussion and attack my position on a completely seperate issue, aka, you sidetracked the debate. Do you perhaps, for a second, think that I feel about you as you feel about buzsaw? Why is he so wrong on so many things? Recall, he has more experience in the world and understands matters dealing with world experience better. According to most of the posts you've made against me, you should be respecting his opinion, but you don't (or you simply disregard it), because you disagree with it.Well, I do respect the opinion of most folk older than myself. However, some people, no matter how old, just have view-points with which I disagree (as you disagree with buzsaw) and I do not find any interest in trying to grasp the bologna they send my way. Ignorance is merely the lack of knowledge on a subject. To claim I wasn't ignorant would be to claim I knew everything. I'm not stupid enough to believe I know everything. And really, this issue has little to do with knowledge; it's about morals. I believe your solutions would work well, as would gasby's, but I find them to be, in a way or another, immoral and, therefore, unworkable. This thread is not for giving advice on how I lead my life, and doing so (despite possible good intentions) is out of line, or at least off topic.You say that I am making factual mistakes. I would like you to point out my factual mistakes in this thread as they relate to the topic. Next, I would like you to explain your opinion, and your solution to the problem (if you feel one exists). In your explaination, I would like you to address the following points:1) world population
2) strain a developed individual puts on the world vs. that of an undeveloped individual
3) rights of any human to willfully reproduce
4) consequences of uninhibited reproduction as seen by the developed world
5) consequences of uninhibited reproduction as seen by the individuals reproducing
6) consequences of not reproducing (or reproducing little) as seen by the developed world
7) consequences of not reproducing (or reproducing little) as seen by the individuals reproducingNow, I hope that both you and I can get over the fact that you think I am ignorant long enough to focus on the topic, and I hope that there will be no more reference to my "ignorance" (or yours) again in this thread.J0N

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In considering the Origin of Species, it is quite conceivable that a naturalist... might come to the conclusion that each species had not been independently created, but had descended, like varieties, from other species. - Charles Darwin On the Origin of Species

Just because I use somewhat unacceptable language in my insults, does, in no way, make his comments any less of an insult.Where I am from, at least, you don't call someone ignorant to their face. And if you do, you are bound to get a "fuck off" or two in return. Unless you're Don Shelby, in which case he'll just publically bash you in one of his overly opinionated news casts.I pointed out to gasby over and over again where he said people shouldn't breed, and he kept asking me, which led to me upholding my end of the agreement. You recall, I warned him Either way, people say things they regret or don't regret all the time. Most people can put it behind them to deal with an issue which is indeed a problem. Others will keep their grudge till the end. I hope we can all put the past of this debate behind us and start over with a new understanding .J0N

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In considering the Origin of Species, it is quite conceivable that a naturalist... might come to the conclusion that each species had not been independently created, but had descended, like varieties, from other species. - Charles Darwin On the Origin of Species

I agree, except that most of this thread has nothing to do with scientific knowledge. It is more about morals. More about respecting the opinions and view points of others. Also, about offering up reasonable solutions to a problem that may or may not exist.J0N