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Author Topic:   Who can explain following:
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 35 of 82 (371309)
12-20-2006 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jaywill
12-20-2006 10:01 PM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
The problem here is that the vision of Ezekiel should not be looked at in light of the natural life but of the divine life.
That is all well and good except there are none here that are of divine life and can thus speak intelligently of it.
The vision should relate not to the biological life of man as part of the old creation from Genesis. Rather it should be regarded as instructive of the redeemed human life coordinating with the divine life. That is the coordination between God and man.
Should according to what authority? And to whom do we speak to learn of this authority? You perhaps?
The overall vision is of God and man in coordination, God and man in harmony, God and man in mutual and harmonious movement for the accomplishment of the will of God on the earth.
Again, you speak as though you were somehow privy to information no one else is? Why is that?
The timing of the vision is a time of Israel's low point. They are in captivity away from the holy land, the holy city, and the holy temple. In the midst of this low point of Israel's discipline God reveals a symbolic vision of His eternal purpose with Israel and with man in general. He has not in the least given up His will that man and God move together in perfect coordination.
More of the same.
This is not a vision about the natural life of man. It is a vision of God's life being dispensed into, imparted into, infused into, and acting in mingling and union with the redeemed people of God.
Good thing we have your word to take for it. Otherwise we might fall into the trap of gullibility eh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jaywill, posted 12-20-2006 10:01 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:10 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 44 of 82 (371352)
12-21-2006 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by jaywill
12-21-2006 5:10 AM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
I have been born again by receiving Jesus Christ. So I have withint the divine life. In fact any man or woman who receives Jesus Christ into thier heart is born of God and has the divine life. You may receive this divine life as well as any other participant.
How do we know this to be the case? Perhaps it is just self-deception on your part.What makes you any more capable of understanding that a person who has not received such?
This does not mean that you or I can instantly plumb the depths this mysterious portion of Ezekiel. Being born of God is one matter. Growing and maturing in that life of God is another and leads to deeper and deeper comprehension of the word of God.
So you are saying you have limited divine life then? How is this different than simple contemplation the character of which grows with the exercise of such contemplation? You think on such things from the point of view of having received Christ.This means that you filter such through pre-conceived notions of what is your interpretation of what a "born- again" person should be able to do.
I have met born again Christians who cannot agree on anything within the context of the Bible, yet both have divine understanding so how come they cannot agree on these matters?
So you should not dispair. And I might add that even though one may not be born of God I do believe some things in Ezekiel's vision, if expounded well, can cause some revelation or some understanding of divine things.
I am hardly despairing,merely trying to understand the psyche of those who claim to have insight of a divine nature.
I can help you to understand some things about the vision of Ezekiel. I did not arrive at all this insight on my own. I learned from others who are more mature spiritually. We believers learn from one another.
If you are divinely cognizant as you claim why would you need a human authority to learn from.? How would you know they are more mature than yourself? Again you claim divine life within yet you also limit this divine life.
I think you should give me a chance before we start debating about "in whose authority". Some of the posters here are familiar with my eagerness to "study the Bible" Obviously this is a "Bible Study" forum. Am I right? So I feel this is the appropriate place for lovers of the Bible, like myself, to engage in some Bible research and study.
Bible study is one thing it is quite another to make claims of divinty that do not make sense on the face of things.If your research is blinded through self-deception then neither your present nor your subsequent investigation will be worthwhile at all since you will not only have preconceptions of the bible you will also defer to authority of other people you assume to be more enlightened than yourself.
But I warn you that my exposition is 100% Christ centered. That is because Christ is the center and circumference of the divine revelation of the entire Bible.
Here we run into difficulty since the person Christ is not well established as an actual historical figure and if the entire stretch of your discourse is centered around a figure that is vague and of questionable authenticity then there is much you must question about yourself I think.
No elitism here.
Not elitism but self deception perhaps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 5:10 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 8:57 AM sidelined has not replied
 Message 46 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 9:12 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 65 of 82 (371480)
12-21-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by jaywill
12-21-2006 9:12 AM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
Now let's get to the details of the vision of Ezekiel. What does it teach us?
Do not trust people who hallucinate when they say they had visions since ,in all likelihood, it is a result of problems in the brain?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jaywill, posted 12-21-2006 9:12 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by jaywill, posted 12-22-2006 12:42 AM sidelined has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5939 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 72 of 82 (371922)
12-24-2006 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by jaywill
12-22-2006 12:42 AM


Re: counterclockwise in the northern hemisphere
jaywill
But if you're concerned about mental health you should know that your own thinking has been damaged by sin. And the effects of sin have had a negative effect on both your reasoning and your conscience.
Not in the least. Sin is a human asserted definition for those actions and attitudes that a given society adheres to as a matter of maintaining order among its members. The "sins" I have participated in have had just the opposite effect upon me. They have allowed me to deeply question my actions and to seek to live my life in ways that prevent such events from recurring.
Life does not come with a set of instructions and all the writings of men placing ideas on paper as a means of delineating ideals of behavior and respect for society are opinions based on their lives and experiences. They have value or not for others as dependent upon the circumstances that we face individually and our own capacities and inclinations.
It is reasoning that allowed me to understand that the world has far more levels of depth than religious texts could ever hope to approach and that such volumes as produced by men and their beliefs are seldom realistic and,indeed , detrimental in my view.
You need the renewing of the mind in God's salvation regardless of whether you like the visions of the prophets or not.
Again you judge me based upon your beliefs and not upon understanding. I neither need nor require a God to save me and I operate just fine in the world amongst friends and family with no supernatural beliefs whatever. I live my life content in the understanding that it is temporary and my place in it will one day be over.
To that end I aim to allow others to enjoy life and to help where I can. I will teach my children to enjoy the precious moments they have and to reason logically and to always question the world about them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by jaywill, posted 12-22-2006 12:42 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by jaywill, posted 12-28-2006 8:48 AM sidelined has not replied

  
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