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Author | Topic: Bible Codes Prove Evolution!!! | |||||||||||||||||||
John Inactive Member |
quote: You do realize that 'the five Books of Moses', 'the Torah', and 'the OT' aren't all that synonymous? You also realize that the Hebrew we have isn't the 'original' by a long shot? The oldest we've got is actually the Greek Septuagint. The Masoretic was written/compiled/edited between 6-10AD. Every book but Esther is represented at Qumran by fragments only. Now they are all pretty similar but if you are going to play games with letter order, I'd think that it would be important to have a 'perfect' copy. And we don't. Consider:
13. All known Hebrew Bible texts, ancient and modern, use a system of spelling that is different from the one that was used in the days of Moses. The archaeological evidence shows that Hebrew spelling has gone through three stages.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~jtigay/codetext.html quote: "b" is an article-- the equivalent of the English "in, with" but Hebrew attaches the articles to the word, which in this case is "reshit."
quote: Why 50? The value of 'tav' is 400. Wouldn't it make more sense to count to 400? Perhaps you choose 50 'cause it just works out neatly?
quote: Yup. You can find similar things in any book of decent size. You just have to play with the numbers.
Famous assinations fortold in Moby Dick! And other cool math tricks as well.
quote: A lot of very smart mathematicians say this is crap. You do agree that this rests on statistic, probability and such like, upon which mathematicians are qualified to comment?
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.math.caltech.edu/code/petition.html quote: Yeah, kinda neat but also kinda meaningless. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Me? The septuagint is the oldest you, I or anyone else has, except for fragments here and there. I hate to break it to you.
The Septuagint is the most ancient translation of the Old Testament and consequently is invaluable to critics for understanding and correcting the Hebrew text (Massorah), the latter, such as it has come down to us, being the text established by the Massoretes in the sixth century A.D. Many textual corruptions, additions, omissions, or transpositions must have crept into the Hebrew text between the third and second centuries B.C. and the sixth and seventh centuries of our era; the manuscripts therefore which the Seventy had at their disposal, may in places have been better than the Massoretic manuscripts.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Septuagint Version quote: hmmm... you realize that Hebrew was an almost dead language and that the Septuagint wasn't translated for the pagans but for the Jews who could no longer speak their ancient tongue?
same source as the preceeding writes: Little by little most of them ceased to use and even forgot the Hebrew language in great part, and there was a danger of their forgetting the Law. Consequently it became customary to interpret in Greek the Law which was read in the synagogues, and it was quite natural that, after a time, some men zealous for the Law should have undertaken to compile a Greek Translation of the Pentateuch. Still more info: Introduction to the Old Testament Strike two for you.
quote: I believe you are confused. This statement doesn't really make sense in context.
quote: And this matters how? The issue isn't the origin of the language but of a particular set of books written in that language. There are no copies of the OT in Ancient Hebrew.
quote: I get the impression that you think it was a simple matter of transliterating the text-- substituting one letter for another another. It wasn't. Languages change. Do you think spelling and grammar remained unchanged for a couple of thousand years before the text was standardized? It didn't. Hebrew has gone through several changes of spelling, as pointed out in an earlier post. This is an important consideration if you are going to play letter-order games.
quote: It is equally a fact that you can do the same thing with pretty much any book. That is the problem. Are there codes in all books?
quote: The point is that is a math trick and most mathematicians know this.
quote: No offense? None taken. The quality of your posts is such that I can only laugh at the pretentiousness of statements like this. You've obviously not done much research, or don't know how to research perhaps. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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John Inactive Member |
quote: Certainly. I must pay attention, because you do not.
quote: It is you who are confused. Please show me where I stated that the OT was ORIGINALLY in greek. I stated that the septuagint is the oldest we've got. It is a translation. It is still the oldest we've got. Please pay attention. Hubris and idiocy are poor bedfellows.
quote: ?????? Write it in 'septuagint'? The 'septuagint' isn't a language. It is the name of a book. The 'septuagint' was written in Greek.
quote: I am aware of what Josephus has to say. Josephus is A source not an infallible one. Let's look at a few things.
quote: In regard to the septuagint, Josephus is actually writing about events which occured three hundred years previously. This is hardly 'writing about his own time.' Josephus, like pretty much all of the historians of the time, recorded what he had heard. That is, he recorded folk tale and legend, as well as fact. Remember the Alamo? Most people 'remember' it incorrectly. The legend has superseded the fact.
quote: It is improper to cite scholars in the field? Please... you sound like a child. Josephus' account is based in a tradition that started with what is called the Letter of Aristeas. There are some problems with this letter which you can read about here. The author clearly dispels the legend, though equivocates on why the septuagint was written. Here is a nice neat account. Read it. I dare you.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Septuagint.htm quote: They weren't a country, nor were they living in 'their' country. The Isrealites had been shuffled around as slaves and chased around as outcasts for many hundreds of years.
quote: More like saying the Chinese immigrants forgot Chisese once they moved to the US. You might want to check the stats. The use of a native tongue drops in the second generation. hmmm... the majority of native american indians have more or less forgot thier tongues and they are living in 'their' country. In WW2, for example, the US used Navajo(?) as a code because there were only 30-something speakers of the language. The time frame is about right as well.
quote: It is perhaps the fact that I don't smoke pot, or anything else, that I am able to think critically about these things. The pot does explain the blatant disregard for fact and the opting for myth instead.
quote: Nope, but damn close.
quote: Latin is considered a dead language, yet there are books written in it and some people can read them-- proportionally, very very few people. Thus the need for translations from Latin into other languages. The hebrew of the time was in a similar position.
quote: Actually, it was a guy named Eliezar Ben Yehuda (1858-1922).
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.morim.com/hebrew_us.htm You may note:
After ceasing to exist as a spoken language about 250 B.C., it was reborn as a modern language in the 19th century, and today it is the principal language of the State of Israel. How many people do you think read Hebrew when next to no one spoke it?
quote: Depends on how ancient you mean. Modern Hebrew is based on the Hebrew of the Masoretic more or less. But the Masoretic is between 2500 and 1500 years younger than the original OT, depending on the particular book. We don't have COPIES OLDER THAN THE MASORETIC.
quote: The Dead Sea Scrolls contain fragments of the various books of the OT. Frequently very tiny fragments and there are variant versions of the texts represented. I mentioned, in a previous post, that I am aware of this. Perhaps you are not paying attention?
quote: Actually, I'd bet that I've been researching this longer than you've been out of diapers, or damn near. From what I see, you swallow every myth that comes your way, so maybe you need to do the research now.
quote: LOL.... right. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
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