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Author Topic:   Bible Codes Prove Evolution!!!
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 23 (36945)
04-14-2003 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by crashfrog
04-01-2003 4:57 PM


quote:
So the fact that you can get "bible codes", etc is not really amazing or significant. It would me much more significant if you couldn't find those things.
If you have free time on your hands get a copy of Torah (five books of Moses, aka Old Testament) writen in Hebrew and do a little experiment. Open up first book, Genesis. Staring at the begining of the book look for the first time hebrew letter "Tav" appears in the text (you can get hebrew alphabet on the internet). That letter "Tav" should appear at the end of first word - "Bereshit" (heb. In the beggining of). From that letter count fifty letters, the fiftieth letter will be letter "Vav", count another fifty letters, the fiftieth will be letter "Resh", one more time count fifty letters and you'll find letter "Heh".
If you put these letters together it will spell out word "Torah". Coincidence? Maybe. Now open second book, Exodus. Do the same thing, first "Tav" in the text and fifty letter sequences. You'll arrive at the same result, word "Torah". Another coincidence? maybe.
Do the same for the rest three books and see for yourself that each of five books will give you same results. All of them containing word "Torah" in same sequence after first letter "Tav".
Now if you have some more time, figure out probablity of this happening by randomness. Keep in mind that complete Torah has 305,408 characters in it. What is the probabily of the same sequence happening at BEGINING of each book with the SAME sequence after EACH letter? There are a lot of very smart people out here, I'm sure you can come up with the answer.
You can be certain that this probability will be SOMETHING like winning a lottery... everyday... for a year! note: I'm just using this to show (people that are not gonna do this)that the probability is very, extreamly low!
In any case, this probability is what scientists call "virtual improbability". In science terms the probabiliy would be nil.
ps. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to use this as a prove of God, just a bizar thing to wonder about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by crashfrog, posted 04-01-2003 4:57 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 04-15-2003 3:53 AM THEONE has not replied
 Message 5 by John, posted 04-15-2003 7:35 AM THEONE has replied
 Message 16 by Amlodhi, posted 01-13-2004 11:28 AM THEONE has not replied
 Message 20 by Sylas, posted 01-28-2004 5:21 PM THEONE has not replied

  
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 23 (37185)
04-17-2003 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by John
04-15-2003 7:35 AM


quote:
You also realize that the Hebrew we have isn't the 'original' by a long shot? The oldest we've got is actually the Greek Septuagint.
The oldest you've got, maybe. Greek Septuagint was simply used by Hellenistic Jews to translate Old Testament between years 250 - 150 B.C. for the Greeks, since there was growing interest for the Torah among Pagan Greece. It has nothing to do with Hebrew or original scriptures. The oldest Hebrew known is Ancient Hebrew, which dates back to 3000 B.C. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/5_intro.html
However, you are right it was not the same. The differnce is that the oldest one is not displaying any vowels. The latter Hewbrew does display some vowels. Actually just one, "Yud" it looks like this - ' . Today's Hebrew shows all vowels, (however they are not nessesary to right anyways).
quote:
Now they are all pretty similar but if you are going to play games with letter order, I'd think that it would be important to have a 'perfect' copy. And we don't.
I can argue about "we don't part" but I wont. Simply because even if we don't the message is so profound that it can be seen in no matter which form of Hebrew alphabet.
quote:
"b" is an article-- the equivalent of the English "in, with" but Hebrew attaches the articles to the word, which in this case is "reshit."
100% correct. Point is - it's written together as one word.( that what it would seem for non Hebrew oriented)
quote:
Why 50? The value of 'tav' is 400. Wouldn't it make more sense to count to 400? Perhaps you choose 50 'cause it just works out neatly?.
Makes sense or not, begining of each book, same sequence, fact. and I didn't choose, it was shown to me.
quote:
A lot of very smart mathematicians say this is crap.
And alot of them saying its not crap. What's your point?
quote:
Yeah, kinda neat but also kinda meaningless.
yep, kind of like your post. (no offense )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by John, posted 04-15-2003 7:35 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 04-17-2003 2:03 AM THEONE has not replied
 Message 8 by John, posted 04-17-2003 2:46 AM THEONE has replied

  
THEONE 
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 23 (37206)
04-17-2003 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by John
04-17-2003 2:46 AM


The Septuagint is the most ancient translation of the Old Testament and consequently is invaluable to critics for understanding and correcting the Hebrew text (Massorah)
Do you even pay attention to what you write??? It says clearly in your post that Septuagint is "the most ancient TRANSLATION of the Old Testament", yet your previous post states that: You also realize that the Hebrew we have isn't the 'original' by a long shot? The oldest we've got is actually the Greek Septuagint
Please, sort out your "original" language and earliest "translation" language. They can't be the same, can they? I mean, you don't write Bible in Septuagint and then translate it to Septuagint, do you? If yes... case closed.
quote:
hmmm... you realize that Hebrew was an almost dead language and that the Septuagint wasn't translated for the pagans but for the Jews who could no longer speak their ancient tongue?
Hmmm... Perhaps you sould read Josephus Flavius, a first century historian, who actually writes about his own time (and a little bit before that) instead of supplying me with Catholic sites and works by Sir Godfrey Driver (I guess a great scholar on Hebrew language in your opinion). You can start on a right path here http://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-pref.htm
After you read it ask me what part of Ptolemies was a king who was extraordinarily diligent in what concerned learning, and the collection of books; that he was also peculiarly ambitious to procure a translation of our law, and of the constitution of our government therein contained, into the Greek tongue you don't understand. (note: by "our" law and "constitution of our government" he means the Jewish law and etc., just read the whole link)
As far as Hebrew being extinct language before the translation of the OT into Greek... man... common... do you really belive that a country forgot it's own language while living in it's own country? It's like saying Americans forgot English because of too much Chineese imigrants... I know, I smoke pot sometimes, but what the hell are you smoking?
Anyways, Hebrew never was a dead language (in full meaning if the word), even when Jews used other languages (of countries they lived in after Roman exile) in every period they had some books written in Hebrew (which means it was remembered). After all, how do you think, Israelis in 1948, established their State with Hebrew as their primary language? A Hebrew fairy came by? And don't give me Modern Hebrew and Ancient Hebrew... thing. The diference between the two is mostly SPELLING. (do some research on this and, please, stay out of Cathlic sites this time, you wouldn't want to learn about Christianity from Muslim sites, would you?)
quote:
There are no copies of the OT in Ancient Hebrew
but there are copies in Hebrew, read something about Dead Sea Scrolls. Once you've done Google research, let me know what you found on the NET.
quote:
Strike two for you.
Just when exactly did you become the Judicial System? I mean, I admire your ambition and all but to quote "Sir Godfrey Driver" on ancient hebrew history (taken of an internet site found on google) and automatically assume you are right... hmmmm, no comment...
As far as bible code... I really don't care. My job is to share, not convince. We're all grownups here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by John, posted 04-17-2003 2:46 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by John, posted 04-17-2003 11:44 AM THEONE has not replied
 Message 21 by DBlevins, posted 01-28-2004 6:02 PM THEONE has not replied
 Message 22 by Peter, posted 01-29-2004 3:55 AM THEONE has not replied

  
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