The Gory Details of 'Miracles'

It's a serious subject under serious assault.

God Your correct! But infallible means it is useful (to say the least).Paul says that all scripture is God breathed. And since God is infallible, then His word would fall under the catagory of being useful. It's quite logical.Particularly useful in terms of teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness for metaphysical problems where man is totally dependant upon God for a systematic theology.If God did not inspire (or breathe) the scriptures, then what good are they? Not to mention that man would 'untruly' be, 'in the dark'. But since the light did come (Christ) we can have faith that it is logically possible and at least listen to Him for ourselves.The mystery of Jesus outshines the others for a reason. To get your attention and place the ball in your court. It's a test. And the only way to miss it, is to do so intentionally.I can't prove anything! I just make the best case I can, so that people will see that it is worth further investigation. I help shine the light as dirty as my mirror is. We all have to open the door to Him ourselves. He just made the door possible (see avatar).I'll add this as well to answer your question, but I preface it by saying that it is not a demonstrable argument. It is a witness; a testimony:Once you are Born Again, you can see the formula of the Bible, or the Spirit of it. It is totally coherent from beginning to end. That does not mean that all of the pieces are visible to me, or any other individual. Certainly not! In fact, He gives something unique to everyone so that we are dependant upon one another for 'whole' understanding.But what it does mean, is that a person of Spiritual discernment can see why other scriptures and books are not included in the Canon.What most people want to know is, 'how can I be certain before hand so that I don't make a fool of myself?'We can't. We can only trust Him at first.But the good news of the gospel is that we can know if we are sincere in seeking.John8:32 then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."We don't have to believe the treacherous contradiction that we can't know the truth. That cannot be true because it would be true itself.Don't you see that the light of reason itself declares these things? To deny the Words of Christ, is to deny logic as valid.Sorry Nighttrain, am I doing the sword thing again?I think I lost my rapier!

I am a joke, it's true. A monkey training monkeys....but Christ is not. So I do get a bit zealous.How bout you spidey? Are you a joke? Or do you take yourself seriously?

misunderstood you.Delete-Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

Please Nighttrain, before I answer your reply, let's think hard here and not dismiss the heart of each other. I have had to really suck it up in the last months myself so that I do not come accross as a man who only wants to make fools out of people. I have done that in my haste here and there, and that is a bigtime sin. I do try to do better... Are you sure?Did you trade your life for salvation? Weep bitterly for forgiveness? Sell your soul for the answer? Give up control of your life? Because that is conversion. Without the Spirit, we cannot survie those attacks. I didn't know what doubt was until I attempted to believe. We need the key to unlocking the lies, and that key is Christ. Circular reasoning doesn't make it illogical. If God is self existing (as He must be) such obstacles (as circular reasoning) are just dodges of the inevitable.To say that God does not exist because I have never seen Him is also circular. Or more formally... 'If God exists why have I never seen Him?' That's begging the question! Do you see how subtle the problem is in what you just said? Such ideas are very clever little devils. Like little snakes that need to be lifted up by priests.Allow me to perform an exorcism.They inject their poison in hopes of it being regurgitated into the mouths of babes.How can you know that no-one knows unless you are omniscient; unless you are self existing? That is also circular, but it is illogical.So which circular reasoning is more trustworthy; the illogical or the logical? For the record, Christians do not battle over the creed. My pastor (in a foursquare gospel church) read the Nicene for our whole congregation and we all read it together. It reminded me of being at Mass as an alter boy.The creed is like the degree, or the 'proof of purchase'. Anyone who denies the creed is simply not a Christian, just as anyone who denies the scientific method is not a scientist. Oh, they can call themselves scientists (and maybe they are more so than 'Scientists'), but the Scientists won't accept them because they deny the method and don't have the degree.One clear distinction between the two, is that the one claims to know the truth, and the other does not. We may doubt the credulity of folks who claim to have met the truth incarnate, but those who admit they have not, have no ground for their truth claims!The grounds of being Born again may be circular, but where are the grounds for human interpretation? That cross carrying process goes on. We have this treasure in jars of clay. I don't challenge the infidels if I am doing my job, because they are my brothers.I challenge the snakes. I pick up them up and drink poison to show how harmless they are. I don't want my brothers living in fear of them.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

I have used the smileys...I just have a hard time believing that Arachnophilia was actually joking because he didn't use any. Perhaps his sense of humor is just very coarse. I'm still getting to know folks.And his affinity for certain individuals caused me to read it in light of his brethren.He is much brighter than some, and should take his mind more seriously.If we're joking, we should make it obvious enough, so that we are not able to be accused of hedging our bets. Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

You mean because in one place in the Bible God says:Yet in another, it says, 'There is nothing new under the sun.'?You think that is a dead end and a clear contradiction?

I see. But my appeal was not leveled to you but to Nighttrain. If you are bored with that, perhaps you and I can discuss other things.What questions plague your mind?

That's nice Marie, thanks for that!

Anastasia, I have to do this. I have to confront you here. Please take it in the spirit intended. It is not an attack. It is an exhortation given in love. If I am wrong here, then I am wrong in true ignorance and infancy. My intentions are pure to the best of my ability to understand these things.You've given tremendous credence to Nighttrain's contention 'that christians agreeing amongst themsleves is evidence that God's Spirit is not revealed'.But Christ Himself said the counsellor would come. And on Pentecost, it did! And not for the priestly and the righteous. But the Holy Spirit (the spirit of truth) came to give life to sinners. Everyone is welcome, and put on an even platform under God.Who's side are you on? The side of Catholism in terms of the Roman Catholic Church? Or the 'universal' concept that the word Catholic is defined by?Anastasia, your proclamation was in defense of your religion and not God.Many of these people are thinking with a mind of flesh. Why are you confusing them? It is our flesh that get's in the way of agreement. It is the carnal mind that causes divisions within the body. It is our need to be praised that makes us stop looking at the one and only begotton who is praise worthy.And all of it is allowed so that no man will glory in His presence. To refine us in the fire and remove our fig leaves. It is only in the humility of failure that we can repent. We are stongest when we are weak.Christ is the only one incorruptable and infallible. The Bible clearly says there are none righteous, not even one. That includes Mary btw! So our faith in men is misplaced.What is more important to you Marie? What the Bible says, or what Popes and bishops tell you it means?Men do not establish doctrine, God does.Men do not ordain preists, God does.Men do not define the terms, God does.And He uses men to do all of these things. Don't be deceived.Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."The truth is not a religion to be understood by the natural mind, it is understood by the conscious and gives sight when born of the Spirit of truth. If you do not understand that, then you are not mature. And that does not mean you are condemned but that you need to repent. and not to me or any other priest but to God thorugh the gate that Christ opened for you (see my Avatar).Perhaps I did you no service by praising your intelligence so many times. More and more every day I find serious failure on your part in comprehending Spiritual things.You want to be accepted more than you want truth. Please snap out of it!1Th 2:6 We were not looking for praise from men, not from you or anyone else.But I was. I confess it publically. You stoked my ego Marie and I welcomed you in. Now I regret it. Now my sin has made me and you stumble. We've talked about this before, remember?So, in that light, you are far more intelligent than I. I couldn't comprehend these things until I was born again. I was a complete dolt. But you appearently can follow much of it with only your natural mind.Don't be proud, be afraid.Jesus said very litterally (in spiritual terms), 'You must be Born again.'I am very frustrated by you Marie...There is nothing wrong with our cultures, traditions, and religions, but they must conform to the truth.We don't throw the parts of the Bible aside that don't conform to our religion... we throw the parts of our religion out that don't conform to the bible.Jesus said, 'He that loses his life for my sake will find it.' don't you see what that means?It means the same as when He said:Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple.He is saying that by comparison, our love for Him must be the main focus in our lives. That is the heart of the Law!What is the greatest commandment Marie?Luke 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 26 "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" 27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" 28 "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."Truth must be first in our lives above all else. To hell with our investment in our own religions and philosophies.

Neither are answers.

Well, I don't like the analogy but I get your point. And this is the problem for many of the theological puzzles.This is the disjunction between the ideal, and the reality. This is the conflict between good and evil.The flesh looks for redmption now, but our faith, though seeing hope's for that which is not yet seen. That's why you misinterpret some things.We live in a world where evil is allowed some time, so the ideal will not be achieved in this life. Hence the new heaven and new earth as per the complete Revelation of Christ, chapter 21.You really need to read your Bible and get some good solid nourishment from a real pastor/teacher.And I offer this publicly only because it is the only way to answer the questions you put in the minds of the unbelieving by your post. That's why I said, 'that was nice! Thanks for that.' Because you inadvertently stepped on the Gospel.We must be more careful. I'm learning that the hard way myself so don't feel impuned. Carry on.

You've turned it around Ringo.The need to hide from the answer (the way, the truth, and the life) with fig leaves is the addiction. The need for God is not an addiction, it is admission of dependance. Just as food is not an addiction. it is a confession of unity with the God we were made for, lost by us, and recovered by God's grace.The need for independance is an addiction. An addiction to power, pride, and sin. It is an addiction to isolation. To wearing a mask. To pretending I'm ok.The Bible says we are slaves to sin but exhorts us to become slaves unto righteousness. The option to be like God and eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was never offered. In fact, that was the only thing forbidden. Everything else is ours. Who would want to live forever as God anyway, when instead we can enjoy the mystery and joy of childhood fascination? And not by the leadership of human parents who make mistakes, but by the leadership of a heavenly Father who is infallible.Can't we just let God be God? His will be done?If not, then He will honor us, and let us live without Him forever. Not His will but ours. But we will still not have the answers. We will just be alone in our own envious madness and quest for glory.I'd rather eat from the tree of life. It's not an addiction, it is the highest high there is. It is the peace that passeth understanding. It's the void we try to fill with all else in our desperation for liveliness. The God sized hole that drives us.It's the only real food for the hunger. And when you find it, you'll give up everything for it, and give your life to tell others the wonderful news.

Suit yourself.I just don't know what you're going to find to wear...

Oh yes you can.You said: I disagree. A dependance is when we try to use a wrong thing to replace the right one.Are you addicted to oxygen, or gravity? Water and food perhaps?As with all things legitimate, we are dependant upon the Word of God. The Word that beccame flesh so that we could not pretend we don't know.Black is not ignorance, it is not even clever. It is foolishness.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.Edited by scottness, : No reason given.

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If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows ” the only food that any possible universe ever can grow ” then we must starve eternally. (Lewis- The Problem of Pain)