What is a soul?

So you define a soul as an apendage? What is your idea of this thing you were born without? How would you describe it?

No. By the nature of the way you percieve you misinterpret me. There is nothing "extra". I recognise you as a soul as I do myself. We speak in the posessive for this very reason. Our conversation would not be possible otherwise.
It was you who insisted there was no meaning to seek.
My understanding of your view is that you have found meaning in life based upon your beliefs you expressed in message 33. No different than any other human who has sought meaning throughout history. Though you continue to insist otherwise. They are part of the meaning you base your life upon. I am the sum of my parts only from one perspective. I understand that perspective. I choose another. My parts are not me nor am I their sum. They are aspects of me. There are many things that I find meaning in just as you do, though it appears you insist otherwise.
My understanding of myself includes your perspective but is not limited by it. When you can find a better way to express that which science can not I may consider the notion. Until then you are a soul to me. How it may be mechanically expressed is of interest but only in a mechanical sense. It has no meaning beyond that.
Why would a chemical machine find anything offensive? Keep in mind that the term machine is a human invention that has nothing to do with the human body. It's the horse before the cart. However it is a box you have placed yourself in.
Learning mechanics, though interesting, will teach me nothing of true consequence. Yes. Intent. You intend to learn and see things from one perspective.
You have intentionally chose this way to see things. Information/experience comes our way....we choose how to see it and incorporate it or disregard it based on intent. This can be said of both points of view. You are stuck in the mechanical and all explanations are derived from this one perspective.
You do not delienate from this course.
I recognise a mechanical perspective but do not limit myself to it.
Your view to me is quite limited. You disregard anything but the mechanical and are offended when I oblige.

You have chosen a higher purpose and have stated so. I am amused by your insistance that this is not so when your statements are to the contrary. You do not sit stagnant. Why? Mesage 43 you state your far from perfect. lol You insist this is to convey a sense of humility.
Humility? why? For what purpose? The following car anology is amusing because you fail to follow the trail of why you need a well functioning car to it's root motivation.
The fact that you have some notion of things running smoothly hints at your higher ideal. That you refuse to acknowledge it is what is most amusing because you are not an uninteligent human. You have a notion of "better" It is not just this simple notion but your beliefs that shape this notion that are your higher purpose. All you do comes from this place of belief. Everything you interpret will be measured by this ruler you have intentionally chosen by direction of your core belief. That is the way people work. All people. You are no exception. You serve this core belief. You believe the human mind is a mystery? In what sense?
The notion of concious and unconcious is exactly that. A notion. How accurate a description of what is, it is, is far from setteld. It is not a notion I adhere to or am perticularly comfortable with as it is based upon assertive interpretation. lol. Yes as one you also hold deer. This forum topic is one you have not been able to funtion in becasue you are unwilling to acknowledge your beliefs as such. When you do so we shall have a true and "meaningful" conversation. They key is you believe there is evidence to support your position. I recognise evidence but of what, is forever open to interpretation. Yours, mine, and a host of others. That is where faith and belief always take over. One cannot escape that fact.
I recognise this. You deny it. What is, is
Edited by 2ice_baked_taters, : bad spelling day lol

Where is your evidence that you are what you claim? This is my entire point. Your view is not based on evidence that proves anything one way or another and you somehow presume to ask me for evidence as if I have something less than you to offer. Any notion as such I find nothing less than humorous.
If you wish to state that it is your belief that we are nothing more than biological machines and that all we are is a process I can accept that as long as you acknowledge the that it is your belief. However you seem deluded in your view that facts somehow support you. Your belief interprets the facts. I do not see them from the same perspective and yours is no better than mine. Unless you wish to profess that your interpretation of facts, such as they may be, is the right one? So you need to get it on with the opposite sex to pass your genes.
This is the reason you are motivated to this action. Ah...a romantic
This is your personal explanation of your motivations? Now exactly how would someone elses beliefs threaten mine?
As my explanation of my belief has been lacking for you, so has yours to me. That you believe yours or someone elses interpretation of information is more valid than anothers and somehow invalidates their point of view is interesting. Your faith it would appear lies in science and that it will bring you the answers you seek. I am sure you are. This thread is faith and belief. You profess to found your belief in facts. This is not the case. Sooner or later you will recognise that you interpret information based upon your belief.

You need to think about the nature of what you claim.
You and I are a fact just as gravity is. We know things about these phenomenon and these characteristics we have identified we call facts. Do these facts define all there is to know about these phenomenon or the nature of them?
Here is the key difference. You hold the BELIEF that things
are only what we know. That they are nothing more. That they are only the facts about them we have come to understand through science. It apears you place your FAITH in science.
I accept scientific facts that we have learned but understand there is much more. I do not look to science to tell me how to feel. I do not look to science to understand my feelings or emotions. I simply know this. It cannot be proven scientifically. If I tell you I hate you what proof have you other than my word?
In our case I choose to define the source of what we are as a soul. A soul to me is in a sense gestalt. Soul is the source of and encompasses all that we are or will be. It is the theory I accept at this time to explain what science falls far short of. The harder we look, the more there is to see, the more we realize how little we know.
You and I are facts. Definitions will vary based on point of view (belief). You will place you convictions/faith in your point of view/belief. And you are correct. Your belief does not make it fact.

What you are saying is that you know beyond a doubt that there is a clear difference. It is your belief. What I am saying is that no one knows.If beliefs are personal...how is it we share them? Feelings are personal too. I seem to be able to detect yours. Ah but wait....show me your feelings. Proof is what I need.I understand my point quite well. You hold a belief. You express faith in it by your actions. Your conviction is expressed in your exasperation....but of course I have no evidence of that...then I need none in this forum topic....theoretically

LMOA...I'm sorry but what does this forum topic have to do with facts?
This forum topic is FAITH and BELIEF.
One either believes in something or one knows it to be fact. Facts do not support belief. Facts are facts. What is, is.
There is a huge difference between accepting the body of knowledge we have for what it is and deluding ones self into thinking we have it all figured out. If you think that all we are is what we know you are a deluded person who ignores the vain history of man.This topic is about what you believe about what you acknowledge you do not know or understand and your faith in it. Now if you would like to profess you have no faith or belief I could accept that. Belief in facts is no belief at all.
I myself do not know what we truly are so I choose the concept of soul to encompass this. It makes sense to me based upon what I understand about us so far. It is the "theory" I embrace at this time. Well of course. This is my entire point. In my discussion with dogrelata he has challenged me to support my belief. I have stated the reasoning for my belief. He has rejected my answer. He also believes that facts, as they may be, favor his view somehow. I recognise this as not being true. I recognise his references but do not share his same point of view about them.
The most important thing is to acknowledge what we do not know and realise from tha point on is belief.

No actually one would deny that belief exists. What is, is. Belief is a part of what we are. To deny it's existence is not honest. I would like to correct an error in my response to your above question.
What I meant to say was that I recognise your belief that you have no soul and your belief that it is a fact. Of course If I were to ask you for your proof of the nature you demand you would be at a loss to prove that faith exists and I would be inclined to not believe you. You are in a catch 22 with faith and belief my friend. There is no reasoning it away. We would have no civilzation as we know it without faith and belief. Nations are built upon it. Comunities thrive on it. Morality is defined by it. We live life according to what we believe.
What is, is.Edited by 2ice_baked_taters, : a clarification

lol, Please. Julian Jaynes apears to be quite an excentric bird. The fact that you drop his name is most amusing. These views are of course based upon an intimate personal knowledge of "primitive" man. I'm beginning to think you actually believe yourself. Edited by 2ice_baked_taters, : No reason given.Edited by 2ice_baked_taters, : No reason given.

Julian Janes, The origin of conciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind. If you choose to follow this persons beliefs that is your choice.
If you wish to step outside this topic and test these baseless claims by scientific rigor...that is your choice. I have not been out of line. I have stated what I believe. As have you. Proof has nothing to do with it. I believe you misunderstood me.
I do not believe I have a soul. I believe I am a soul.

This is faith and belief. This particlular topic is about the concept of soul and how we percieve it. If you have reasons for not believing you are a soul and have nothing to contribute to the concept that is fine.
Perhaps you would care to share what you do believe in?

And you have evidence that is empirical? I think not. More accurately I think that it is a physical handical that prevents us from being all that we can be. It is my opinion. I may be wrong however at this time my guess is as good as anyone elses. Personality changes occur in people all the time for many reasons. This is just another reason. I happen to think of it as a handicap.
We can also carry a mental burden or handicap that can change us for life. Often these burdens can be dehabilitating or cause sickness and death. We can become different people by both enduring and being relieved of a burden. We change throughout our lives. This is nothing new. Where the line is between physical and mental or if there is one is open ended at this time. I will accept the honest answer that you hold a belief in this as I do. All lifes grand experiences are expressed in chemical imbalances. If fits just fine. The entire event.So, if not a soul....what do you believe in?

These all seem to be expressions around the same general belief.
1 and 3 are nearly the same. 1:You get what you give, it all comes back to you. 3: When you wonder where it came from...look in the mirror.
4 Were you all that you could be and did you practice healthy 1
2:Underlay this all with a little humility.
Sound like what I learned in parochial school. I appreciate your sharing the values/philosophy that you believe in.
This topic was on the concept of soul. I was looking more for your belief in that direction. I expressed my view of what a soul is. You have expressed that you are not comfortable with "soul" so, what do you tend to believe?

Satisfy me? as in somehow change my mind? Not hardly. Shall we google thousands of life changing events such as rape, war, loss of any number of abilities or central things to lives that people find they can not cope with. They find other ways and they become different people. I am not the same person I was 10 years ago. I have met many people who changed considerably over the course of time I knew them.
In the same breath...if you lose your legs, your ability to do many things relating to your legs will change who you are and what you can experience. My fathers frontal lobe was damaged by a 6cm hemorage. His ability to reason is directly affected. His thinking is slowed and takes great effort. His words get mixed. He has become a different person in many ways. I can still see him but some other can not.

There guess outweighs mine? In a question no one knows the answer to?