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Member (Idle past 6505 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
lmilko Junior Member (Idle past 6310 days) Posts: 1 From: Erdevik, Serbia Joined: |
no spam. Welcome to EvC, but please refrain from spamming.
Edited by AdminPhat, : spam removed Milko Leporis ----------------------------------- Creation The Truth
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1435 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray lmilko
I suggest you read forum guidelines -- bare links are frowned on, as are blatant promotions of personal websites. This is also a {science} thread and you are expected to substantiate any claims with evidence. I glanced at your website and notice that it is full of the usual creatortionista pratts (points refuted a thousand times) that you have either naively, gullibly, ignorantly or maliciously copied from other sources without verifying their validity. This means you are not posting the THRUTH in spite of any claim to do so. If you care to substantiate any one of those claims I suggest you start a new thread and post what you think is the MOST credible one and back it up with evidence. Go to Proposed New Topics to start a new thread. Your choice. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
RAZD, you would make a great administrator!
GOT QUESTIONS? You may click these links for some feedback:
*************************************** New Members: to get an understanding of what makes great posts, check out: "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" AdminPhat
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Volunteer Junior Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 21 From: Tennessee Joined: |
In 1856 Thomas H. Huxley (ardent evolutionist and defender of Darwin) said Neanderthal bones belonged to people and did not prove evolution. Rudolph Virchow, a German anatomist, said the bones were those of modern men afflicted with rickets and arthritis. ("Neanderthals had Rickets" Science Digest, February 1971,p.35)
Cro-Magnons were truly human, possibly of noble bearing. Some were over six feet tall, with a cranial volume somewhat larger than that of men today. This means they had more brains than men have today. Not only did they have some excellent artists among them, but they also kept astronomy records. The Cro-Magnons were normal people,not monkeys; and they provide no evidence of transition from ape to man. "Faith is: the substance of fossils hoped for,the evidence of links unseen."
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2290 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 7.6 |
In 1856 Thomas H. Huxley (ardent evolutionist and defender of Darwin) said Neanderthal bones belonged to people and did not prove evolution
and you think we haven't learned anything new in the 151 years since?
Rudolph Virchow, a German anatomist, said the bones were those of modern men afflicted with rickets and arthritis. ("Neanderthals had Rickets" Science Digest, February 1971,p.35)
And you think we haven't learned anything new in the 36 years since?
The Cro-Magnons were normal people,not monkeys; and they provide no evidence of transition from ape to man.
Men, that is Homo sapiens, are apes. Live every week like it's Shark Week! Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
The Cro-Magnons were normal people,not monkeys; and they provide no evidence of transition from ape to man. With all due respect, that is one of the most ridiculous proclamations I have even seen. Show me where any scientist has ever said that Cro-Magnons were "monkeys". Show me! Show me where any scientist has ever said that Cro-Magnons were evidence of ape-to-man transition. Show me! Only creationists would make the ridiculous claim that any scientist would make such a claim. Just as creationists have tried to claim that scientists think that the ancient Egyptians (the ones who built the pyramids) were "ape-men". Complete and utter bullshit! What kind of trough have you been feeding from? You really need to consider radically altering your brain's diet.
Rudolph Virchow, a German anatomist, said the bones were those of modern men afflicted with rickets and arthritis. Do you have any idea at all who Virchow was? More importantly, when he was? His Wikipedia article is at Rudolf Virchow - Wikipedia. The guy was pure 19th century! Did you know that? If not, then why not? Here's the skinny on him and Neanderthal ("Creationist Arguments: Neandertals" at Creationist Arguments: Neandertals -- do some reading and start to learn):
quote:Please note that Virchow had examined the first Neanderthal fossils in 1872 (duh?), which were (relying on my memory now) those of an old arthritic individual. Since then, we have found fossils of over a hundred individuals of all ages. The claim that Neanderthal features are the result of rickets completely ignores the evidence and is just plain ignorant. There is a cure for ignorance. It's called "learning". Ever hear of it? The then-Governor of Mississippi explaining why he was campaigning so hard for education reform in his state:
quote: OBTW, we do indeed have the ape-to-man transition. Handed to us by the creationists! We have transitions from Homo erectus and Homo Neanderthalensis (or Homo sapiens neandertalensis, depending on where you stand on that controversy -- yes, science does indeed have controversies, but real ones, not the fake and fraudulant ones that creationists hawk). Creationist claim that Home erectus was "100% ape" while Neanderthal was "100% modern man". With these transitions from H. erectus to H. Neanderthalensis, we do indeed have the ape-to-human transition. Thank you for your support, even though it was unintentional. Edited by dwise1, : OBTW {When you search for God, y}ou can't go to the people who believe already. They've made up their minds and want to convince you of their own personal heresy. ("The Jehovah Contract", AKA "Der Jehova-Vertrag", by Viktor Koman, 1984) Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world. (from filk song "Word of God" by Dr. Catherine Faber, No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/WORDGOD.HTML) Of course, if Dr. Mortimer's surmise should be correct and we are dealing with forces outside the ordinary laws of Nature, there is an end of our investigation. But we are bound to exhaust all other hypotheses before falling back upon this one.(Sherlock Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles) Gentry's case depends upon his halos remaining a mystery. Once a naturalistic explanation is discovered, his claim of a supernatural origin is washed up. So he will not give aid or support to suggestions that might resolve the mystery. Science works toward an increase in knowledge; creationism depends upon a lack of it. Science promotes the open-ended search; creationism supports giving up and looking no further. It is clear which method Gentry advocates.("Gentry's Tiny Mystery -- Unsupported by Geology" by J. Richard Wakefield, Creation/Evolution Issue XXII, Winter 1987-1988, pp 31-32)
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7 |
DrJones writes: Volunteer writes:
And you think we haven't learned anything new in the 36 years since? Rudolph Virchow, a German anatomist, said the bones were those of modern men afflicted with rickets and arthritis. ("Neanderthals had Rickets" Science Digest, February 1971,p.35) Uh, the Virchow indirect quote was made in 1872, which was one hundred thirty-five (135) years ago. Not far off from the Huxley quote. The real question is what that article actually said. Did it try to claim, as the creationist do, that rickets were the cause of Neanderthal features? Or did it merely show that the disease also existed way back then? Has anyone researched that article? More importantly, did Volunteer ever think to check it out? Yeah, I doubt that too. {When you search for God, y}ou can't go to the people who believe already. They've made up their minds and want to convince you of their own personal heresy. ("The Jehovah Contract", AKA "Der Jehova-Vertrag", by Viktor Koman, 1984) Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world. (from filk song "Word of God" by Dr. Catherine Faber, No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/WORDGOD.HTML) Of course, if Dr. Mortimer's surmise should be correct and we are dealing with forces outside the ordinary laws of Nature, there is an end of our investigation. But we are bound to exhaust all other hypotheses before falling back upon this one.(Sherlock Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles) Gentry's case depends upon his halos remaining a mystery. Once a naturalistic explanation is discovered, his claim of a supernatural origin is washed up. So he will not give aid or support to suggestions that might resolve the mystery. Science works toward an increase in knowledge; creationism depends upon a lack of it. Science promotes the open-ended search; creationism supports giving up and looking no further. It is clear which method Gentry advocates.("Gentry's Tiny Mystery -- Unsupported by Geology" by J. Richard Wakefield, Creation/Evolution Issue XXII, Winter 1987-1988, pp 31-32)
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Content wise, a pretty nice job. Oozing with a bit too much crankiness though. Be nice, you do want the creationists around don't you? Besides, crankiness tends to beget more crankiness.
You are welcome, indeed encouraged. to reply to this message. BUT if you do, do it at the "General discussion..." topic, link below. Adminnemooseus New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts. Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, [thread=-19,-112], [thread=-17,-45], [thread=-19,-337], [thread=-14,-1073] Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon. There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot. Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source
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Volunteer Junior Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 21 From: Tennessee Joined: |
I'm sure that I'm not as well read as you "intelectual" evolutionist but I have read enough to compare you with the Southern Baptist here in Tennessee. They always find some way to explain away the parts of the Bible that don't fit into their belief system. And now I read about this open system trying to explain away the Second Law of Thermodynamics in spit of what Einstein and all the physicists say!
Way to go intelectual boy you are in good company. "Faith is: the substance of fossils hoped for,the evidence of links unseen."
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Volunteer Junior Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 21 From: Tennessee Joined: |
Edited by Volunteer, : I posted the message twice.
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Lithodid-Man Member (Idle past 2961 days) Posts: 504 From: Juneau, Alaska, USA Joined: |
Please tell me that you are a brilliant parody of a fundie, I have to believe it. I love it! The misspelling of "intellectual" was a giveaway. And the bit about Einstein's spit, golden.
"I have seen so far because I have stood on the bloated corpses of my competitors" - Dr Burgess Bowder
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Percy Member Posts: 22505 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.4 |
Hi Volunteer,
I think Dwise1 was just trying to indicate that much of your Message 64 contained false information. For example:
Volunteer in Message 64 writes: In 1856 Thomas H. Huxley (ardent evolutionist and defender of Darwin) said Neanderthal bones belonged to people and did not prove evolution. Darwin didn't publish Origin of Species until 1859, so Huxley is very unlikely to have expressed sentiments like this in 1856, or ever, for that matter.
Rudolph Virchow, a German anatomist, said the bones were those of modern men afflicted with rickets and arthritis. ("Neanderthals had Rickets" Science Digest, February 1971,p.35) Since Virchow died in 1902, he is unlikely to have written an article in Science Digest in 1971, 69 years after his death. Dwise1 provides you the correct information when he tells you that Virchow rendered his opinion on the first Neanderthal fossil, not to claim that the differences from modern humans were the result of rickets, but just that this Neanderthal individual might have had rickets in childhood. Virchow was a leading rickets expert of the day. The many, many Neanderthal fossils discovered and examined since that time over 140 years ago clearly indicate that the Neanderthals were a separate and unique species, and modern DNA analyses (which Mammuthus mentioned in Message 1) have confirmed this view.
Cro-Magnons were truly human... Yes, of course, they were Homo sapiens, and while not exactly like us very, very similar. What in the world led you to conclude that Mammuthus was saying anything else? Here's a quote from the passage Mammuthus cited in Message 1:
Mammuthus quoting an article in Message 1 writes: Following the most stringent current standards for validation of ancient DNA sequences, we typed the mtDNA hypervariable region I of two anatomically modern Homo sapiens sapiens individuals of the Cro-Magnon type dated at about 23 and 25 thousand years ago. Here we show that the mtDNAs of these individuals fall well within the range of variation of today's humans... Given that Mammuthus was citing an article pointing out how similar Cro-Magnon man was to modern man, even calling them "anatomically modern Homo sapiens sapiens", why in the world would you write a rebuttal as if it had said the opposite? --Percy
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Volunteer Junior Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 21 From: Tennessee Joined: |
Did I not just bow to your intellect? And thank GOD that University research has discovered that there is no correlation between spelling and intellect because I am the worlds worst speller. However, You just won me five bucks from a good friend of mine.
I bet him that instead of answering that you would ridicule. That's a favorite tactic of most evolutionist. You have read the open system argument haven't you? Maybe you don't believe it either.The big difference with the Southern Baptists is they don't ridicule, they just sentence you to Hell when you disagree with their beliefs. With this, I will bow to the administrator, things are getting too personal. You can have the last word, I am obviously in the wrong forum.
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Grashnak Junior Member (Idle past 5973 days) Posts: 5 From: Finland Joined: |
It is pretty weird that Neanderthals brain was litte bit bigger than the modern humans brain.
Well I dont know did they have larger brain, but the skull capacity was 10 % bigger.
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ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Volunteer writes: I bet him that instead of answering that you would ridicule. That's a favorite tactic of most evolutionist. And a favorite tactic of creationists is veering off-topic - i.e. Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon - when they are rebutted. You can feel free to answer the rebuttals and you can feel free to take your misunderstanding of thermodynamics to any one of the vast number of appropriate threads. By the way, you're not even in the Top 100 worst spellers on this site. Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.
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