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Author Topic:   Abortion - Moments of (Mis)Conception
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 105 of 178 (390179)
03-19-2007 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by macaroniandcheese
03-17-2007 11:50 PM


so you thought sluts should pay before you found god,
Just one question, and it is the essence of all your and nators replies. Then I will bow out of this horribly repeatitive subject here on EVC.
When did I ever accuse anyone of being a slut? You both do this over and over, and that is put words in your oppositions mouth, which is, BTW lying. If you think you can win a debate, or convince the other side to change their minds, then you must not lie.
We are not only talking about people who have irrisponsible sex, but husbands and wives, and boyfriend and girlfriend. If the girl I impregnated is a slut, then so am I. Why would I call anyone a slut?
Your going to have to prove that I called anyone a slut. And if you can't you need to admit that you lie in your debates, and also seek help, or shoot your Pastor for calling you a slut or something, because I just don't know where that comes from.
You also have to leave out God in your abortion debates with me. I have not brought up God, I am trying to argue this from a purely secular view. Stop putting on me whatever it is that you went through with your local church, it's not me, or do I represent them. It's really unfair of you. Your going to have a tough time, unless you start forgiving people, when you finally do, you'll be free.
It may be up to you to stop the BS that is happening in your church, but it's not up to you to make every "Christian" you meet to pay for the mistakes of one group of people. Just because people call themselves Christian, doesn't really make them one.
And yes, I have had some minor pyshological training in school.
Both my sister studied it, and my best friend is a sociologist, who one day will be a psychologist. We talk about this stuff all the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-17-2007 11:50 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by nator, posted 03-19-2007 8:31 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 132 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-19-2007 2:12 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 106 of 178 (390180)
03-19-2007 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Asgara
03-18-2007 12:09 AM


I've gone through it Rat...more so than you have...your girlfriend went thru it. Maybe you can tell ME what I'm suppose to feel.
When did I claim that every woman feels this?
Haven't I posted information that tells an opposite story, that most women do nto go through this?
Why are you pinning this on me, that I have to tell you how to feel?
Yes making the decision was hard, yes going thru with it was hard, yes there were feelings of sadness and guilt afterwards.
That's my point right there, that's all.
If it wasn't life, then this decision would be a no brainer. If you zygote was a tumor,(which people liken a zygote too, for purposes of lying) you would not hesitate to remove, and not have any feelings of guilt.
I rest my case.
The only long term issues I ever had with it were the rejection and accusations coming from friends.
That sucks. At least I didn't have to put up with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Asgara, posted 03-18-2007 12:09 AM Asgara has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 107 of 178 (390182)
03-19-2007 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Asgara
03-18-2007 12:16 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
I've spent many hours in the PAS support boards. I've joined and talked with these women. I've participated in the discussions. Yes, the stories can bring you to tears. But the issue isn't the abortion, its the societal guilt trips. Its being told you are wrong, its having people not accepting you. Most of the women I talked with on those boards had depression problems to begin with. When you are depressed and have people judging you for a decision you felt you had to make, of course it makes the depression worse. It becomes a form of OCD, these women start to obsess on the "wrong" decision they are told they made and build shrines to their "babies."
No one has said there isn't real pain out there. They are saying that treating it as something other than depression and building it up into something it isn't is wrong. It does nothing but teach these women that they are right to feel bad. It perpetuates the punishment.
Which brings up another point.
I totally agree with everything you wrote, and understand it, but, couldn't the opposite be true? If everyone tells them it's ok, and abortion is good, and we all grow up in a society that thinks that way, then well, it's ok then.
That's how I grew up, being told it was ok, and it was good in certain circumstnaces, and it's not life, blah blah blah. Then you go through it, and you find out, it's not what they said. I felt like I have been lied to my whole life about abortion. It is life, and it does matter.
I'll give it a name, pre-traumatic abortion syndrome.
All the lies have rearranged the neurological paths in my brain, which the fucked me up mentally when the truth was found out.


Exposing the lies, one truth at a time!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Asgara, posted 03-18-2007 12:16 AM Asgara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by nator, posted 03-19-2007 8:35 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 111 by Asgara, posted 03-19-2007 9:08 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 161 of 178 (390415)
03-20-2007 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by nator
03-19-2007 8:31 AM


Your position is all about blaming the woman for consenting to sex, rat.
That is just a more polite way of calling her a slut.
Life is beautiful. Having children is a blessing, not a consequence.
Woman who consent to intercourse, and get pregnant, are not "getting blamed" That's just BS. It's just nature doing it's thing.
You guys are the ones with the interpretation problem, and name calling. Your just liars in other words.
Plus that is not the only point that my decision hinders on.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by nator, posted 03-19-2007 8:31 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by nator, posted 03-20-2007 11:17 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 162 of 178 (390416)
03-20-2007 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by macaroniandcheese
03-19-2007 2:12 PM


you are the one who keeps bragging that you had this position before you found god. you mentioned god;
I had to tell you that, because your the one who keeps bringing up God, and the church, and religion. All of which have nothing to do with this. We are not debating about forcing religious views on others.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-19-2007 2:12 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-20-2007 1:13 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 163 of 178 (390417)
03-20-2007 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Asgara
03-19-2007 9:08 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
The guilt was from being judged by others, from being told how terrible I was, from losing friends over a very personal decision.
I don't think the guilt comes from what others think in every case. Maybe not even in yours. If you lost friends over this, then maybe they weren't really your friends to begin with.
I felt guilt, because I knew that I had killed a life. One that I was blessed with the opportunity of creating, and I abused that opportunity. No one told me that, it's just how I felt all by myself. No-one even knew I went through it, as we kept it a secret. My fiance at the time, felt the same thing as me, and several other people I know who went through it, all felt the same thing.
When you make the issue about whether or not women have sex while not wanting to be pregnant...calling them sluts is exactly what you are ultimately doing, whether you realize it or not.
Well I think that is total BS. I am not to blame for what happens in nature. I suppose I am responsible for all those fire's in Cali as well?
Are woman sluts only if they get pregnant?
Am I a slut because I got a vasectomy, so I can have sex all the time now?
Maybe when people start facing reality, and stop blaming the world for their problems, abortion will be illegal, and getting pregnant, and having sex will be taken more seriously. If we spent the amount of money on education instead of abortions, maybe we wouldn't need abortions either.
But don't worry, because I am sure nator is going to provide some study to prove that theory wrong.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

Take comments to the Moderation Thread.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Asgara, posted 03-19-2007 9:08 AM Asgara has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 170 of 178 (390623)
03-21-2007 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by nator
03-20-2007 11:17 AM


Why is ending life OK in one instance and not OK in another?
It's never ok nator, as I said earlier in this thread.
It's not a black and white issue, stop making it one.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

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AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must view the contents, use the peek button; but do not respond.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by LinearAq, posted 03-21-2007 12:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 171 of 178 (390627)
03-21-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Asgara
03-19-2007 9:08 AM


Re: Re-Abortion
The guilt was from being judged by others, from being told how terrible I was, from losing friends over a very personal decision.
I know this off-topic, so suspend me if you will.
But I just have to tell you Asgara, that I would still be your friend, regardless of your decision.
Anthony
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
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Edited by AdminPD, : Contents rendered invisible. If you must read, use the peek button; but do not respond to this off topic post.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 447 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 175 of 178 (390718)
03-21-2007 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by LinearAq
03-21-2007 12:08 PM


Re: Why then the difference
Because a man who rapes a woman has no right to start a life. So to me, it should have never happened. I feel the man who rapes, should be charged with rape, and murder.
I admit, I could be wrong about this, in the eyes of a fetus, but it is my opinion. Given all the circumsatnces, and that a child needs a host, from time of conception, pretty much until it graduates highschool, this is an unfair burden on someone who did not wish this to happen to them.
And if God has anything to do with all of this, then God will take care of the rapest, and hold him accountable for his actions.
I think even in the bible OT that incertain circumstances the woman and the man got stoned to death in a rape situation, when the woman did not scream for help, when clearly help was available. Did God have mercy on the fetus then?
But to me, it's not really about religious views concerning rape, and abortion, it's all about liability, and responsibility. It's about playing games with life, and having respect for the process by which we are standing/sitting here debating.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message or continue in this vein.
Topic concerns when life begins.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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