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Author Topic:   Rape and evolution
Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 60 of 84 (391751)
03-27-2007 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Larni
12-08-2006 4:55 AM


Re: An important distinction.
Larni writes:

I think it is important to note that the act of rape is an act of agression and humiliation.

This is an interesting view Larni, and I've seen it espoused in most psychology works. However, I was recently challenged by reading The Blank Slate by Stephen Pinker, who suggests this might be a common misconception.

Is there actually any significant evidence that rape is about power more than sex?


"And, lo, a great beast did stand before me, having seven heads, and on each head were there seven mouths, and in each mouth were there seventy times seven teeth. For truly there were seven times seven times seven times seventy teeth, meaning there were. . . okay, carry the three, adding twenty. . . plus that extra tooth on the third mouth of the sixth head. . . Well, there were indeed a great many teeth" - The Revelation of St. Bryce the Long-Winded

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Replies to this message:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 63 of 84 (391876)
03-27-2007 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Larni
03-27-2007 8:58 AM


Re: An important distinction.
Pinker, as you may know, is an evolutionary psychologist, and so he approaches the situation from that angle. Rape, in his view, is a last ditch effort for genes to pass themselves on to another generation.


"And, lo, a great beast did stand before me, having seven heads, and on each head were there seven mouths, and in each mouth were there seventy times seven teeth. For truly there were seven times seven times seven times seventy teeth, meaning there were. . . okay, carry the three, adding twenty. . . plus that extra tooth on the third mouth of the sixth head. . . Well, there were indeed a great many teeth" - The Revelation of St. Bryce the Long-Winded

Help inform the masses - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

This message is a reply to:
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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 65 of 84 (391908)
03-27-2007 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Chiroptera
03-27-2007 8:41 PM


Re: An important distinction.
Well, he mentions that most victims of rape are nubile young women. From that, he draws the conclusion that rapists are selecting for the best chance of passing on their genes, but if it was about power, then old women or prepubescent girls (or boys) would be equally preferred (rather than being a minority of targets).


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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 69 of 84 (391937)
03-28-2007 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Doddy
03-27-2007 11:45 PM


Re: An important distinction.
Does anyone have any conclusive evidence either way? Does anyone know why rape is considered an act of power, over an act of lust?


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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 74 of 84 (392064)
03-29-2007 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Tusko
03-28-2007 1:08 PM


Re: An important distinction.
Tusko writes:


I guess the most obvious reason I can think of is that many rapes are perpetrated against men, which can't be viewed as an effective means of transferring genes to the next generation, last ditch or not.

As Chiroptera said, the impulse is only to have sex, not to reproduce. If one is in an environment with few women (such as a jail, where most male rapes occur), then it does make sense for the focus of sexual attention to turn to men, does it not?

Edited by Doddy, : clarification


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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 77 of 84 (392081)
03-29-2007 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by crashfrog
03-29-2007 1:23 AM


Re: An important distinction.
crashfrog writes:

I would suggest that the fact that the prison environment (where superior status and dominance over inferiors is viewed as essential to survival) is more conducive to male-on-male rape than, say, an all-boy boarding school, or summer camp, or a firehouse, indicates that rape is an expression of power and dominance rather than simply a sexual outlet.

Or perhaps it is that none of those situations have aggressive men locked up together, for very long periods, without any contact with women?

crashfrog writes:

I would suggest that rape is a dominating action expressed in a sexual mode. Obviously, the rapist's individual sexual preferences are going to come into play, but power and dominance are still at the root of it. A commonly-citied statistic (that I'm too tired to look up) informs us that a majority of rapists are usually in sexual relationships, already.


I'm sure they are. But that doesn't mean it is a fulfilling one.

Take this following example: A man and his new girlfriend are on their third date, and all is going well, and they head back to her place. One thing leads to another, and they get intimate. Partway in, the girl backs out and says they've gone too far, too soon. The guy ignores her and forces himself onto her and keeps going.

Now, you mean to tell me that at the instant when they guy begins to ignore her, his motives suddenly change from wanting sex, to wanting to exert his power over her and put her in her place?

Edited by Doddy, : spelling


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Doddy
Member (Idle past 4104 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 78 of 84 (392082)
03-29-2007 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tusko
03-29-2007 7:57 AM


Re: An important distinction.
Tusko writes:

Like Crash, I tend to believe that rape in prisons is primarily an expression of dominance than a way of finding sexual release. There are after all other ways of making yourself ejaculate- whacking off, obviously, but lets not forget consensual sex either.

Perhaps, but what about other, more common forms of rape?

Exactly how much power-play vs lust is involved? 50:50? 100:0?


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