How many sons does God have?

Tenses notwithstanding, Jesus made it clear elsewhere (e.g. Matthew 25) that entry into heaven depends on day-to-day behaviour. Whether event or process, "rebirthing" is not mystical, it's practical.But the topic is "How many sons does God have?" Being "born again" is not particularly relevant.We have to be careful not to mix up the imagery.The father/son metaphor is used throughout the Bible and maybe most directly in the parable of the prodigal son. Some posters here don't seem to be able to understand the simple concept that a son is a son is a son - from birth, always and forever, no matter what. There is no hint whatsoever in the parable that the son "became" a son (in a single event or in a process). He was always a son.If the parable isn't a picture of God's relationship with His sons, what is it's purpose?Another simple concept that seems to escape understanding is the fact that fathers don't give birth. Neither fleshly birth nor spiritual rebirth have anything to do with the father.

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Probably true in Mt 25, but this is far from any context of "sonship" or "children". The focus and emphasis in Jn 3, which IS in the context of "new birth" (i.e. becoming a child), is very different than Mt 25. That's true in the parable. But Jn 1:12 could not be clearer that people need to BECOME sons of God by faith. In John's usage, not everyone is a son of God. Not true. The word for "born" in the "born again" of Jn 3 is "gennao". This verb is generally used of the MALE role in birth (cf. Mt. 1:2; "Abraham was the father of Isaac"). In the passive voice (as in Jn 3) it would be more literally translated "fathered" or "begotten". (It is occassionally used of the female role in birth, e.g. Lk 1:13, but the verb "tikto" is more common for this.)So being "born again" in Jn 3 is more relevant than it might appear. John seems to be using it pretty much synonymously with "becoming a son of God" in Jn 1:12.Edited by kbertsche, : changed subtitle

I don't read Message 1 as referring to the spiritual born again aspect concerning sons of God or how to become a son of God.The originator seems to be looking at a more literal interpretation.Participants please keep discussion in line with the OP.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

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I think that from God's point of view, once He creates a soul it is His forever. It would not at any time loose it's Perfection regardless of it's chosen path. Regardless of how black it gets, God can always cleanse it. Perfection is resilient enough to take anything man can give it. At birth , God would recognize the worth of any new soul and have in place the environment that will bring it to full growth. Much is said of free will but it seems that it is not possible for us to choose to go to Hell. In all else we have choice and free will. Being reborn is well and good but is not necessary to be saved. Jesus's death to confirm the forgiveness of sin saved the whole of humanity and affirmed God's sense of responsibility for His creations. It also shows the Perfection of His systems.
To be otherwise and to still have Hell would be unfair. Like it or not we are all children of God and under His protection and love.Regards
DL

Where some of you are quoting scripture that place limitations on the soul getting to Heaven, even Jesus with His you need to come by me, would be wrong, regardless of the text. It presumes that there is a Hell to send souls to. There is only one place to go after death. Heaven. A hell would be a blemish on God's ability to create Perfection. This would not be allowed. Further a Hell would diminish the sacrifice of Jesus. He did die to forgive all sin after all.Having said this then evil and sin take on a new character. One of a necessary nature to us as a learning tool. Even Genesis indicates this. If God were unhappy with the way the world is going, He would end it as a useless experiment that produces more for a Hell than for Heaven.This should all reinforce the words of the Bible that we are all brothers and should treat each other as such.I personally fail in this by being grouchy and suffering fools badly. I try.Regards
DL

Damn right. I am a Cradle Creedal Christian. By Biblical Christians I generally refer to those Christians who seem to think that 2 Timothy 3:16 is referring to the Bible and implies some inerrancy.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That you exist.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If you look at the "I believes", the Nicene Creed, it begins: Do you subscribe to the Nicene Creed?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Notice I said this is irrelevant. We are not talking about getting into some kingdom but rather about whether or not we are "Sons of God".The vast weight of evidence is IMHO that we are all "Sons of God".God creates all that is, seen and unseen.God is the Father.We are instructed to pray, "Our Father, who art in heaven..."The issue of salvation, entering some kingdom, of whether or not we get some award is irrelevant to whether or not we are the Sons of God.As to being born again being a continuous task instead of some imaginary one time enlightenment, Jesus himself tells us time after time that it is what we do, our actions.But the whole issue of "Born Again" is irrelevant to the question of whether or not you are a "Son of God".

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

On the contrary, that's the exact context. Jesus was speaking of "all nations", i.e. everybody:

quote:

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Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

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And He refered to them as His "brethern":

quote:

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Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

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There isn't much room for error in that passage. Jesus said pretty clearly that "all nations" are His "brethern", which makes them all the sons of God.Any interpretation of John has to fit within that context.

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AdminPD wrote: OK, let's look back at the questions from the OP: A better question would be "What does 'sons of God' MEAN in Gen 6:4?"Note that there are only 5 occurrances of the phrase "sons of God" (bene-ha'elohim) in the Hebrew OT text. Two are here in Gen 6 (vv. 2, 4). The other three are in Job (1:6; 2:1; 38:7).

quote:

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Job 1:6 (NASB)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.

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Job 2:1 is very similar."Satan also" implies that these "sons of God" were angels. This supports the idea that they are also angels in Gen 6, which others have already suggested in this thread. (This is apparently one of three major interpretations for "sons of God" in Gen 6.)FYI, there are two other related phrases in the OT:
Deut. 14:1 "sons of the LORD your God". This is used of Israel in contrast with the Gentiles, implying that the Gentiles were not "sons of the LORD your God".
Hos 1:10 "sons of the living God". This phrase was to be used of Gentiles in the future, reversing their then-current position as "not God's people".

I am limited on time at present, but briefly:This seems to be Greatest I Am's latest attempt to introduce his personal pet peev of 'no Hell existing', an objective that seems fruitless when coupled with Biblical background, because anyone can tell you that Hell is Biblical.If we talk about being born again, we may as well include the next verse 'of WATER' and the Holy Spirit. Now, these are the very words of God, but I don't see any of the Biblical Christians emphasizing them. Being Catholic, I emphasize Baptism as per Jesus' words, and I am not deluded about the ability to lose salvation after Baptism. It is NOT a one time deal. IF we are born again as sons of God, we may lay claim to an inheritance, but only IF we are sons do we get it, and only IF we are sons can we screw it up. Simply being a son guarantees nothing, and by golly, I don't think all the analogies of the Bible should be wasted when they were put there in the first place so that people could understand inheritance based on real life. In real life, people lose inheritance, sons or not.I may have to disagree with jar, because I do believe the Bible is explicit about staking a claim upon sonship, I do believe that we call God 'Our Father', but only once we have staked that claim.Ultimately, the question only has to do with whether we were created or begotten. It is not complex. I say God has only One Begotten Son until I see Biblical evidence that other Beings WERE Gods. GIA mentioned these giants. Where can I find Biblcial evidence that they were to be worshipped, that men were to be worshpped, or that angels were to be worshipped? For that matter, can I even find proof that Jesus was to be treated as a God, or that sons of God must BE Gods?I find that the way we use 'Son of God' in relation to Jesus is based on extra-Biblical conjecture...it is True for me, but not for all Christians who use the Bible. Therefore, the question of the sons of GOd is not pertinent or important to those who feel that Jesus was not unique, but only supreme or first, and the specific question asked by GIA is geared towards those who feel Jesus is unique...which again, I answer by saying that He is believed to be God Himself, either with or without Biblical support, whilst the other 'sons of God' are taken to be creatures and NOT worshipped.Perhaps, then , we could look for support of this theory which would propose to seperate a creature from a son. If it is not directly in the language, which may be figurative, it should be in the context...and the context of the Bible does not show that any OTHER being can be called a son of God in this sense of BEING God.

Let's begin the journey at Matthew 6:9 and and and and and I can continue posting examples from both the Old and New Testaments, but I think folk can get the idea. God is seen as the Father, with no mention of any Born Again nonsense."Born Again" is actually only mentioned in two places in the Bible, in John 3 and in 1 Peter 1. In 1 Peter 1 it is in relation to behavior, and in John 3 it is in a parable about salvation. In neither case is it anyway related to whether or not someone is a "Son of God".For reference, here are the passages where Born Again is mentioned, in context.John 3: and 1 Peter 1 Notice that in the instance of 1 Peter 1, it too acknowledges that we are all Sons of God by beginning with "And if ye call on the Father".Edited by jar, : missing n

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I thought the moderator requested to stop discussing these "figurative" uses of "son"?? (Though we could argue that Gen 6 is also figurative.) So I'll only make two very brief points.First, note that there's a difference between "son" and "child". In the Hebrew culture, a "son" was accorded much more privelege than just a "child". The only verse you mention which says "son" is 1 Tim. But here Timothy is PAUL'S figurative son, not God's.Second, the verses you quote were written to specific people at a specific time. 1 Thess and Galatians were written to churches. Mt 6 was spoken to the disciples. These are all "saved" ("born again" in the figure of John 3). The fact that these are God's children doesn't mean that everyone is, also.

Actually, I covered the whole spectrum I believe. There are instances from the OT, internal documents, from Matthew which was directed to any who pray, and from the Epistles which were Evangelical, marketing texts. As I have said several times, including the very post you are responding to, salvation is irrelevant to whether or not one is a "Son of God" and the "Born Again" nonsense is also totally irrelevant to the question.If you would like to see additional support for the assertion that God is the Father and Creator of all, I would be happy to add additional links to passges that support that position as in Deuteronomy 32:6. The question asked in the thread is "How many sons does God have?".Based on the overwhelming evidence from the Bible, I believe the Biblical answer is "We are all Sons of God."

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion