BTW I agree completely with your statements in post #244.
Mod says:
What I'd like to know, after claiming there is another way to know anything about God beyond revelation, is what is this other way?
Suppose I asked you to prove to yourself that you were born, BUT you cannot use:
1. Anything anyone tells you (they could be trying to con you)
2. Any papers, documents, or photos (all can be faked)
3. Reason or logic of any kind (you might think it reasonable
That because others have been born, you were too, but it's not,
and you can't use it.)
As far as I know there is only one thing left that you can do to prove to yourself that you were born. You do it all the time, in fact if you were unable to do it you could probably not function in society. People do it in court when they testify, when they take a test at school. Everyone does it. They just never thought of using it to discover themselves, or that they were born, OR that God exists.
When I was 19 I was doing a lot of thinking about my life and "who or what exactly am I?" and "What the hell am I doing here?” During doing this I suddenly remembered (well actually relived, like I was in a movie) something that happened to me when I was 7. In thinking about it I saw all the ways this had affected my thinking, biased data collection, and affected my interactions with others. It changed the way I was to a considerable degree. A couple of weeks later it occurred to me, what if there were other subconscious memories like this affecting my thinking and attitudes.
So I decided to start looking for them as I don't like things affecting my thinking I don't know about. Well I found more and they didn't sometimes just affect your thinking they could affect your body, giving you aches and pains that have no physical cause. (Unless you have a brain tumor this is where most headaches come from) My only concern in doing this was finding who and what exactly I was.
Took me 15 years to remember/relive being born, and remembering it
cured a sinus problem I had had all my life (wasn't even looking or thinking to do that). A side benefit is I have not had a single headache in 24 years. Even remembered prenatal stuff ( which resulted in my no longer supporting or being a member of NARAL).
Let me pause for a second. Everything I have discovered to this point is nothing new and can be found in the peer reviewed Psych literature or a general psychology textbook. Memories which occurred with people who I could check on them about, I did. Mostly my mom, dad, older brother and my uncle Dan who used to baby sit when I was small.
Now, I'm not sure that I have gotten everything so I kept looking. One day I relive the last time I died. France 1943, trying to get home in a hurry and a bomb hits the building to my right and I get blown through the air, lived for a few moments and then cashed it in. Then the heart attack trying to get that fu*king ox cart unstuck from the mud in SE Poland, dead face down in the mud, and others, and others and others . . ..
This led me to the conclusion that I am a spiritual being who has lived and died many times. So there I am in my mid thirties an atheist who is a spiritual being who has lived and died countless times. Still no evidence for God.
To cut to the chase, one day I found myself re-experiencing leaving God and my decision to do so. “Where” God is there is no space and no time. God is not in this universe. Yes, I decided to leave God. This was the result of a non-understanding on my part. I am no where near as intelligent or knowing as God. God did not wish me to do this and there was an immense outpouring of compassion and understanding. At the time I did not understand, in retrospect I realize God knew all of the pain, suffering, sickness, death and insanity I would end up enduring for billions of years. This was not a smart decision.
This is why I’m a Deist. I’m 58 and still looking, always more to know about yourself, plus I have a problem to solve. How exactly do I get the hell out of here and back to God.
I have some ideas, but am not sure.
All the good and evil in this universe is done by us. You and I are here because we did something stupid, but it was our decision and now it is our responsibility. Remember that the next time something bad happens to you or to others.
BTW does God punish you for doing wrong? No, you punish yourself, and have been for a long, long time.
Don’t believe what I have said here. I find just believing, like in a religion you know about by reading, doesn’t change much in the world. Go LOOK yourself and see what you find out.