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Author | Topic: Dangerous pro-choice extremists? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
In message #240 is the "Only if Mom says so" thread, NemJuggs claims:
quote: My reply, in Message #278 of that thread (with some slight editing) is below:
Name some "wacko" pro-choice activists or organizations you would consider "dangerous". Like, name some that have carried out bombings of churches or the offices of some anti-abortion group, or maybe killed some prominent anti-abortion activists, or published their likenesses, home addresses and phone numbers on the internet with "WANTED" above their pictures. Maybe you can show us some images of screaming picketers outside a church, or Christian adoption agency, demanding that the pregnant women going in not give their baby up for adoption but get an abortion instead. You know, like your side has. I think it is abundantly clear that the anti-abortion people have the corner on the violent, criminal extremists. I hear this claim from conservatives a lot; that when it is pointed out to them how many violent, hate-mongering, radical, and obviously irrational people there seem to be withing the conservative community, they say "Oh well, there's just as many wacko people on the liberal side." I don't think that's true. At all. This thread is intended to let conservatives document the liberal equivalents of conservatives who, say, threaten or murder abortion doctors, or picket women's health clinics, or beat up or kill gay people, or break bottles over their heads and send themselves death threats to make it look like they were attacked and threatened and then blame it on liberals, etc.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Never heard of them. Are they a large group?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Er, right. Um, did you read the OP?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Do nazis count as what?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: It doesn't have to be that narrow. I picked the reproductive rights/gay bashing issues becasue they have such a long history of violence, and because the former was the impetus for the "each side has its wackos" comment by juggs. I also wanted to discuss the internal group reaction to these people. It seems to me that when progressives "turn the corner" into lala land (which seems to be rare), they generally get kicked to the curb and denounced by "their own". By contrast, it seems as though you can be the craziest, hatefull nutcase you want to be in the conservative world. When people do or say crazy-ass, violent or hateful things that support conservative ideals, they are not at all roundly denounced by conservatives. They are given all sorts of understanding and justification and not rejected at all, even though they would say that same attitudes and acts, if done by a progressive, would be worthy of severe punishment and censure. It seems to me that conservatism both breeds and nurtures violent extremism. Edited by nator, : No reason given. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: There is a range. Some are actually violent, some are simply nutcases, others espouse or excuse violence and extremism: Randall TerryAnn Coulter David Duke Bill O'Reilly Glen Beck Pat Robertson Fred Phelps (conservatives oppose him now, but their outrage at his "God Hate's Fags" demonstrations only emerged after he started targetting the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq.) Those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can add to the list.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: The point is, though, that the crazy nutjobs like Ann Coulter and David Duke aren't ostracized by the more moderate segments of the overall conservative movement. They are generally tolerated by conservatives, given tacit approval from the Republican party by an absence of censure or criticism.
quote: Dude, don't you remember that he was a member of the Louisiana House of Representatives? He actually won elections on his white seperatist platform, and came very close to winning the US Senatorial race in Lousiana in 1990.
his wiki page There are at least tens of thousands of conservatives, at least in the South, who support him, but those are only the voters. I'd wager that there are hundreds of thousands who do if you include the people who don't vote.
quote: Again, when have you ever heard the conservatives in Utah coming out against Pat Robertson? They give their tacit approval through their failure to say he's a hateful, lying bigot.
quote: You can narrow this down to "social conservative" if you like, but my point remains. All of those "fiscal conservatives" sure are quiet about the social conservative extremeists like Randal Terry and Ann Coulter as long as they bring in the votes. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Are you going to address the OP re: pro-choice extremists?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Originally, you claimed that both sides of the abortion debate had dangerous nutjobs. I'm still waiting for you to provide the list of dangerous pro-choice nutjobs.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I disagree. I think that many conservatives, while not publically embracing or endorsing violence, don't say too much against or get outraged enough to completely disown themselves from the violent radical extremists at the fringes of their movement. I mean, look at the completely outrageous, violence-mongering stuff people like Fred Phelps and Ann Coulter spewed for years. Ann's books still sold like hotcakes and she kept appearing on national mainstream news programs as though she wasn't a crackpot. Apparently, her comment that we should invade all the Arab countries, kill their leaders, and convert them all to Christianity wasn't offensive, but calling John Edwards a fag crossed some kind of line. Phelps contined to do his homo-hate thing pretty much unimpeded by the Right for many years until he started targetting the funerals of Iraq war soldiers.
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So dude, are you going to list all of those dangerous nutjobs in the pro-legalized abortion camp, that are roughly equivalent to the dangerous nutjobs in the anti-legalized abortion camp that you said existed?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
So dude, are you going to list all of those dangerous nutjobs in the pro-legalized abortion camp, that are roughly equivalent to the dangerous nutjobs in the anti-legalized abortion camp that you said existed?
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