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Author Topic:   if scientists accept God in science, is science destroyed?
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 61 of 72 (444802)
12-30-2007 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by tesla
12-30-2007 10:43 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
It is entirely possible to not exist, just as flying spaghetti monsters most certainly do not exist.

Existence is as intangible as love. Both concepts exist, and we can talk about them, but we can see, touch, taste or smell neither of them. They are concepts, ideas, emotions, and as such, are perfectly intangible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:43 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:02 PM Organicmachination has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 62 of 72 (444804)
12-30-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Organicmachination
12-30-2007 10:48 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
it is possible for "some thing" to not exist, but it is impossible for existence to not exist.

existence is tangible. we are all a part of it. therefore its not a concept that things are, its an assertion based on the fact things "are"


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 10:48 PM Organicmachination has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:12 PM tesla has responded

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 63 of 72 (444806)
12-30-2007 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:02 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
God and Existence must then be infinitely old, with no beginning to either of them, because if existence was there before God, then God must not be the omnipotent creator of everything, as something must have had to create him. Either way, my logic about the chicken and the egg still stands.

Tell me, have you been able to wake up in the morning and see existence? You can see that things exist, but you can't see existence itself. I can see that your logic is flawed, but I can't see or touch or feel your logic itself. Your logic, as an object, does not exist. It exists as an intangible idea, just like the concept of existence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:02 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:21 PM Organicmachination has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 64 of 72 (444807)
12-30-2007 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Organicmachination
12-30-2007 11:12 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
in the christian view: in the beginning there was only God.

by exploring existence: in the beginning there was only existence.

god=existence

moses was instructed by "i am"

"i am" = existence

therefore the concept of God=existence

i wake in the morning and i smell, feel, touch, taste, and hear all the marvelous things that exist in "existence".

your still proposing that existence could not exist, which is impossible. refer to my signature


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:12 PM Organicmachination has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:28 PM tesla has responded

Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 65 of 72 (444809)
12-30-2007 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:21 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
If God is existence, then am I God, since I exist? Is Satan God, because he exists? No. God and existence are separate but related. God, if he is omnipotent, could not have come into existence after the concept of existence was established. Do you see your problem here? Are you willing to admit that your God is not omnipotent or all powerful?

Your God must have brought the concept into existence with him, and not before, and if God created the Earth and life, then our existence is a product of him, not him himself. If God was existence, then we would have sprung into existence alongside him, and not 6 days afterwards, or however long afterwards.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:21 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:39 PM Organicmachination has responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 66 of 72 (444812)
12-30-2007 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Organicmachination
12-30-2007 11:28 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
existence is not a concept its a fact. existing is not existence itself but rather: to exist, means you are a part of existence.

in the past arguing "not being" has been wholly futile and will always be futile even after the dead horse no longer is there to kick.

you will never be able to prove to me existence is not tangible, because to accept that would be accepting the possibility that i do not exist. its a futile argument.

for me to exist, there first has to be existence to exist in.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:28 PM Organicmachination has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:43 PM tesla has responded

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 67 of 72 (444813)
12-30-2007 11:41 PM


Topic ! for all
Drop the blather about existence in this thread!
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 3790 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 68 of 72 (444814)
12-30-2007 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:39 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
I regret you will never be able to understand what I am saying, even though it is nothing like what you think I'm saying. I'm not saying that existence does not exist, and that you don't either. All I'm saying is that existence is a philosophical idea that represents the fact that we..are. You can't possibly reach out and grasp existence, just like you can't reach out an grab other ideas and emotions. Either way, this argument is going nowhere, and is completely off track with the original intentions of this thread. Let's agree to disagree and somehow get back to the matter at hand.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:39 PM tesla has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:51 PM Organicmachination has not yet responded

  
tesla
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 69 of 72 (444816)
12-30-2007 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Organicmachination
12-30-2007 11:43 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
ok.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Organicmachination, posted 12-30-2007 11:43 PM Organicmachination has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by tesla, posted 12-31-2007 12:26 AM tesla has not yet responded

tesla
Member (Idle past 2137 days)
Posts: 1198
Joined: 12-22-2007


Message 70 of 72 (444825)
12-31-2007 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by tesla
12-30-2007 11:51 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
i beleive that i found the answeres i was looking for in this debate.
it may be closed at any time.


keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is
~parmenides
This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 11:51 PM tesla has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 18311
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 71 of 72 (444861)
12-31-2007 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by tesla
12-30-2007 10:10 PM


Re: Assuming God: any consequences?
tesla writes:

statement: in the begging there was only God

Assuming you're still talking about the topic of this thread, this isn't a scientific statement because there is no evidence for God from the natural world.

Tesla, you're just repeating the same assertions over and over again without providing any evidence to support them. Learn what science actually is before you argue about how it should change.

on a side note: the law of thermodynamics is tentative.

Uh, yes, of course, that's what I just explained in my previous message.

Let's see, let me check my list of scientific theories here and see how many are not tentative. Omigosh! Would you believe it! There's not a single untentative scientific theory! Wow! Who woulda thought!

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by tesla, posted 12-30-2007 10:10 PM tesla has not yet responded

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 72 of 72 (444875)
12-31-2007 8:47 AM


Topic Closed by Request
This topic has been closed at the request of the originator. Message 70

Edited by AdminPD, : Typo


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