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Author Topic:   Did Eyelids Evolve?
Rahvin
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Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 83 of 117 (448668)
01-14-2008 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Aladon
01-14-2008 6:39 PM


Re: Replying to Rahvin
Oh dear. You've obviously never read the The Origin of Species then? Evolution may not be coined as a word, but the book covers the theory extensively.
The theory of evolution has progressed a great deal since Darwin, as has science in general.
Also, you are quite mistaken on a theological front here also. People are not born as Christians, they are born as sinners. They need to make a rational decision at some point in their life to accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and move from darkness into light. From death to life, so to speak.
So, for the first 25 years of your life you may have had a belief in God. Not the same.
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Have to love that one. I clearly cannot have been a real Christian, or really have accepted Jesus, because I later became an Atheist.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 6:39 PM Aladon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:28 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 87 of 117 (448677)
01-14-2008 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Aladon
01-14-2008 7:28 PM


Re: Replying to Rahvin
Almost true, but you must be reading between the lines because that is not what I suggested.
Evolutionary theory may have progressed, but it's still a theory.
quote:
Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Have to love that one. I clearly cannot have been a real Christian, or really have accepted Jesus, because I later became an Atheist.
Almost true, but you must be reading between the lines because that is not what I suggested.
Evolutionary theory may have progressed, but it's still a theory.
Ah, so you haven't been reading what people have been posting at all, then.
You know, "gravity" is "just a theory" too. And it has about as much supporting evidence as the theory of evolution.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:28 PM Aladon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:34 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 90 of 117 (448682)
01-14-2008 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Aladon
01-14-2008 7:23 PM


Re: denial?
Okay, is there any transitional evidence for the eyelid or any other of modern mans parts or functions?
Go back and read the rest of the thread. We already went over some of the evolutionary precursors to eyelids, and the fact that humans still have the vestigial remnants of the nictitating membrane.
As for other transitional evidence:
ALL features of all species are transitional. They exist between their ancestors and their descendants, and their features will be slightly different versions from both, the differences growing with further separation.
Humans, for example have features like the appendix - a vestigial remnant of the cecum, which helped our distant evolutionary ancestors digest cellulose (in other words, they were herbivores and could eat things like grass). In us, the appendix serves no real function, and is actually detrimental due to its habit of becoming infected. But it's the same feature, slightly modified for many, many generations until its original purpose is completely unnecessary.
We also have a vestigial tail.
If evolution is true, then all features of all species must be a modified version of the same feature on another pre-existing species. it doesn't have to do the same job, but it has to be the same feature. And this is exactly what we see. No features are unique, they are only modified versions of the same feature we see in other species.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:23 PM Aladon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:53 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 93 of 117 (448695)
01-14-2008 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Aladon
01-14-2008 7:53 PM


Re: denial?
Well Adam would have been a herbivore as you call it. Thats why God gave him that organ.
The Bible makes no mention of Adam eating cellulose based plant matter. Just fruit, which is much different. Aside from that, vestigial features don;t occur within a single species (as in, you don't find a feature in a species, and then several generations later find that same feature in the same species is now useless and vestigial).
AS for Coccyx, it is just the end of the vertebral column that supports the head at its beginning and it must end somewhere. Wherever it ends, evolutionists will be sure to call it a vestigial tail.
This is the tailbone. Notice the fused, vestigial vertebrae at the end (technically, the whole of the coccyx is 4-5 fused vertebrae). If it was not a vestigial tail, we should simply see it end, and not have the extraneous section. Hell, the entire coccyx is attached after the hips. An un-evolved spinal column, intelligently designed if you will, should simply not have the coccyx at all. It's extraneous. It's useless. It's vestigial.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:53 PM Aladon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by AdminNosy, posted 01-14-2008 8:28 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 96 of 117 (448700)
01-14-2008 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Aladon
01-14-2008 7:53 PM


Re: denial?
Well Adam would have been a herbivore as you call it. Thats why God gave him that organ.
AS for Coccyx, it is just the end of the vertebral column that supports the head at its beginning and it must end somewhere. Wherever it ends, evolutionists will be sure to call it a vestigial tail.
Let's bring things back on topic then. As posted earlier in this thread, humans have a vestigial remnant of the nictitating membrane and some of the musculature that it would use were it still present. This is a vestigial feature, and nictitating membranes are a similar structure to eyelids. Note, however, that some creatures (like cats) have both - eyelids did not arise from nictitating membranes, but it would appear that, in some species (like us) eyelids have replaced them.
Neither of your comments addressed that.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Aladon, posted 01-14-2008 7:53 PM Aladon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Aladon, posted 01-15-2008 6:13 AM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4046
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 109 of 117 (448813)
01-15-2008 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Aladon
01-15-2008 6:13 AM


Re: denial?
I cannot discuss eyelids without first discussing this word and it's misuse. Is that permitted on this thread or must we start another and come back here once we have established some rules on the use of language?
How is the word being misused? I'm disinclined to take your word for it, since you yourself misuse the word "theory" as it pertains to science, and don't understand the theory of evolution despite claiming it to be false.
Discussion of how the vestigial remnants of the nictitating membrane are or are not in fact vestigial would certainly be on topic.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Aladon, posted 01-15-2008 6:13 AM Aladon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Aladon, posted 01-15-2008 11:16 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
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