Women In 1 Corinthians

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So its relative then.

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Yes.

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How can you use your group's relative morals to criticize another group's relative morals?

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Because I believe that my morality leads to a better, freer, more humane society.

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Without some authority, you're just expressing your opinion.

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Well, we can look at history and the societal results of oppression of women (or any group) as an authority.Would you say that life was better for women when they were considered chattel? Or when they weren't allowed to own property? Or vote? Or be paid as well as a man for doing the same or better work? Or before people even recognized the term "marital rape" as anything other than an oxymoron, since a husband's supreme right to sexual access to his wife's body was considered inviolate?

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For example, if a group wants women to STFU in church, how can you use your groups social requirements to say that their social requirements are wrong?

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It is a matter of philosophy, to be sure, to determine if a freer, more egalitarian society or a more oppressive, hierarchical society leads to greater peace, contentment, and prosperity for all, not just those with certain sexual organs or of certain families or of certain castes.I think that history has some lessons for us there.

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Or are you saying that it is based on one set of social requirements that all people living together in groups require?

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No. All people living together in groups require some social rules to function as a society.I think there have been plenty of examples over the millenia of various social contracts that we can look at an judge their relative effectiveness and ability to bring justice, peace and prosperity to as many people as possible.Strict gender roles and oppression leads to discontent and revolution. Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

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Clearly it's for whatever reason you have invented in your head.

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Why would I ask if I didn't want to know your reason?

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Let's just go with that, because nothing I could say would convince you otherwise.

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So you are a mind reader now, and already know that I can't be convinced?I love how you don't answer the question and then blame me for it on the basis of something you can't possibly know.Come on, now.Why won't you directly confront him?I am asking becasue I want to know why.

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That's just circular reasoning.

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No, it isn't.

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You are also assuming that being freer and more humane is better.

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I am not assuming that it is.I look to history and it shows me that it is.

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Another group could believe that thier morality is better and that being free and humane doesn't matter.

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For them, your morality is worthless.

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How can you criticize their morality?

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From a historical and philosophical persoective, I can easily do so.They don't have to accept my premise that freedom and humane treatment of others is better, but the point is, my morality is based upon a relatively rational basis.Saying "X is moral because we believe God said it is moral" is a pretty lame reason for morality.I would then ask, if you believe that your God declared it moral to rape and murder and commit genocide, a la Old testament, does that make rape and murder and genocide moral?Under their morality, it does.

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This assumes that greater peace, contentment, and prosperity for all is a good thing. Another group might not.

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True.Of course, se are rather evolved to be social animals and we also evolved to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Stress over long time periods does bad things to our bodies, even causing us to abort pregnancies and die prematurely. I think we are rather biologically driven to want to live peacefully and prosperously.Greed and disdain for those who are considered "other" is a human characteristic, but as what people consider "the tribe" comes to encompass more and more of the entire population of the planet, the more it seems to make sense to "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."In other words, Jesus was right when he urged all of us to treat each other the way we would wish to be treated.That seems to be part of what makes us human.

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Because it isn't possible to adequately confront him, and he will pay for his crimes eventually. It's a waste of time to try to change someone so sure of his own superiority.

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I disagree.Remember, to confront him is not just an attempt to change or enlighten him. I agree that he is probably a hopeless case. To address his sexism is also a declaration to everyone else reading, as a Christian, that you do not condone his position.Your silence translates as tacit approval.

Well, do you agree with his view of women, or not?