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Author
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Topic: Same sex marriage
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2333 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: 05-10-2003
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Message 61 of 165 (48119)
07-31-2003 2:21 AM
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Funky hasn't been around in over a week. I hope he comes back soon. He started this interesting topic and I'd like to hear more of his views. Funk, everything ok with you?
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 62 of 165 (48120)
07-31-2003 2:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by DC85
07-31-2003 1:14 AM
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quote:
I know it was torture being fat in school... and right now thats noting compared to Homosexuality. it would to me be wrong to put a child there in that. Until that changes .......
And how is it meant to change if homosexuals are denied equal rights? Imagine trying to eliminate racism while still making black people ride at the back of the bus.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by DC85, posted 07-31-2003 1:14 AM | | DC85 has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 64 by Mammuthus, posted 07-31-2003 8:04 AM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
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Dr Jack
Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: 07-14-2003 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 63 of 165 (48141)
07-31-2003 5:40 AM
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know of much different evidence that shows that children raised by gay parents show no difference in outcome compared to children raised by straight parents (for example, the Bay Area Family Study and the Contemporary Family Study). Are these available online? Can you provide a link to them?
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 67 by Rrhain, posted 07-31-2003 8:24 AM | | Dr Jack has not replied |
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: 08-09-2002
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Actually, it looks like there is a big push to deny homosexuals equal rights. First, Bill Frist is trying to push an amendment to the constitution recognizing marriage as a union between a man and woman exclusively. George Bush pandering to the right both defined homosexuals as "sinners" and claims that a law should be passed to the same effect as what Frist is proposing....and to top it all off the vatican is making a big push to prevent any law being passed that recognizes homosexual marriage as valid... The irony I find with Frist and Bush is they mouth off about "freedom", small government, government not intruding in the life of others...and there they are supporting just the opposite...maybe the constitution should be amended to declare that corrupt nitwits should not be allowed to hold office.....
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-31-2003 2:33 AM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 72 by derwood, posted 07-31-2003 11:12 AM | | Mammuthus has not replied |
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Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6506 days) Posts: 3085 From: Munich, Germany Joined: 08-09-2002
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Message 65 of 165 (48152)
07-31-2003 8:06 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by DC85
07-31-2003 1:14 AM
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By this logic, fat people should not be allowed to go to school...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by DC85, posted 07-31-2003 1:14 AM | | DC85 has not replied |
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Rrhain
Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: 05-03-2003
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Message 66 of 165 (48155)
07-31-2003 8:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by DC85
07-31-2003 1:14 AM
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DC85 writes:
quote:
it would Be Extremely hard for a child in that type of Environment not Because the parents are Gay and can't make a happy home its Because of Other children!
That isn't what the experts in child development say. Again, it seems that you, too, are of the opinion that gays raising children is a new thing. To the contrary, gays have been raising children for decades. What is this "social experiment"? Will children tease other children because their parents are gay? Of course. But then again, children will tease other children for everything. Should we not allow Jewish parents who live in predominantly Christian neighborhoods from adopting children lest the other children make fun of them for their religion? Should atheists not be allowed to adopt children?
quote:
Right now in the USA it seems to be the Biggest Insult to Call someone Gay. its really a Big deal. to have a Kid in a family like that? to me thats really NO.
Even though the children, themselves, don't seem to have a problem with it? Again, children will always find something to pick on the other kids about. Doesn't matter what.
quote:
I know it was torture being fat in school... and right now thats noting compared to Homosexuality.
Oh really? How would you know? ------------------ Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by DC85, posted 07-31-2003 1:14 AM | | DC85 has not replied |
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Rrhain
Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: 05-03-2003
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Message 67 of 165 (48156)
07-31-2003 8:24 AM
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Reply to: Message 63 by Dr Jack
07-31-2003 5:40 AM
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Mr Jack responds to me:
quote:
quote:
know of much different evidence that shows that children raised by gay parents show no difference in outcome compared to children raised by straight parents (for example, the Bay Area Family Study and the Contemporary Family Study).
Are these available online? Can you provide a link to them?
Not that I'm aware of, but I haven't gone looking. I do know that the Baehr v. Miike decision is online which includes the testimony of Dr. Charlotte Patterson who referenced them.
Court Decision, Baehr vs. Miike (complete text) ------------------ Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by Dr Jack, posted 07-31-2003 5:40 AM | | Dr Jack has not replied |
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Dr Jack
Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: 07-14-2003 Member Rating: 9.2
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Message 68 of 165 (48160)
07-31-2003 8:47 AM
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Ok, I'm convinced. I withdraw my earlier opinion, in favour of this new one: Gays should be allowed to marry, and adopt on an equal footing to heterosexual couples.
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nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 69 of 165 (48162)
07-31-2003 8:52 AM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Jack
07-30-2003 11:05 AM
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quote:
But because I think there's resonable evidence that having a mother and father is the best environment for a child to be raised in.
quote:
I think there's evidence, but I'm insufficently knowledgable about the subject to give a definite answer.
Then why form an opinion before becoming "sufficiently knowledgeable?"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Dr Jack, posted 07-30-2003 11:05 AM | | Dr Jack has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2201 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 70 of 165 (48164)
07-31-2003 9:05 AM
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Reply to: Message 60 by DC85
07-31-2003 1:14 AM
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quote:
Right now in the USA it seems to be the Biggest Insult to Call someone Gay. its really a Big deal.
It depends where you live, actually. I see you are from South Carolina. I have never lived in the south; only visited occasionally. However, from what I know of the general social climate in many parts of the south which has been conveyed to me through friends who have either always lived there or have moved there, it tends to be more homophobic than some other parts of the country. Most of the midwest is pretty much that way, as well. Basically, though, you will find isolated places (often University towns and larger cities) where people can be gay and live in peace.
quote:
to have a Kid in a family like that? to me thats really NO. Personally I am not against because the Child can be Happy in the Home. But outside of that I wouldn't think so. I know it was torture being fat in school... and right now thats noting compared to Homosexuality.
Well, the kid probably isn't going to be gay, the parents are. And I would definitely say that it is much worse to be fat in today's culture than gay. Fat jokes are common, and we see entire hollywood movies based upon how funny or unattractive or unsuccessful fat people are. Look, kids are incredibly cruel to each other in school for all sorts of reasons. It's a fact of life. To keep kids parentless in the system just because they "might" have some problems seems silly. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 07-31-2003]
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by DC85, posted 07-31-2003 1:14 AM | | DC85 has not replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 71 of 165 (48179)
07-31-2003 10:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 68 by Dr Jack
07-31-2003 8:47 AM
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quote:
Ok, I'm convinced. I withdraw my earlier opinion, in favour of this new one: Gays should be allowed to marry, and adopt on an equal footing to heterosexual couples.
Wait... wait, this is an internet message board! No one is supposed to acknowledge the other side's arguments! We're supposed to keep rephrasing earlier statements, and... and keep... my worldview is shattered. In all seriousness, this warms my heart. 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by Dr Jack, posted 07-31-2003 8:47 AM | | Dr Jack has not replied |
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derwood
Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: 12-27-2001
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Message 72 of 165 (48189)
07-31-2003 11:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Mammuthus
07-31-2003 8:04 AM
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hypocrisy
quote:
The irony I find with Frist and Bush is they mouth off about "freedom", small government, government not intruding in the life of others...and there they are supporting just the opposite...maybe the constitution should be amended to declare that corrupt nitwits should not be allowed to hold office.....
Un-friggin-believable, the hypocrisy the Right shows at every turn. The anti-sodomy law flap is a case in point. No "big gubment". No intrusion. Freedom - cuz afterall, them terrorists HATE freedom (which is one of the absolute STUPIDEST things I've ever heard...). Individual rights. Unless, of course, you is one a-dem gay faggits - THEN its ok for the Fedral Gummint to knock down your doors to make sure you isn't touching each others privates... In your own home...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Mammuthus, posted 07-31-2003 8:04 AM | | Mammuthus has not replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 73 of 165 (48193)
07-31-2003 11:20 AM
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Reply to: Message 72 by derwood
07-31-2003 11:12 AM
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Re: hypocrisy
No, no, you don't understand. They stand up for the right to fuck your fellow man metaphorically. Not literally.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by derwood, posted 07-31-2003 11:12 AM | | derwood has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by derwood, posted 07-31-2003 11:29 AM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
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derwood
Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: 12-27-2001
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Re: hypocrisy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Dan Carroll, posted 07-31-2003 11:20 AM | | Dan Carroll has not replied |
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DC85
Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: 05-06-2003
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Message 75 of 165 (48211)
07-31-2003 12:25 PM
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ok I see your point.... where I live its Bad racism is a big problem also. they Even are prejudice against People from the North! they seem to be still fighting the American Civil War. I came from New York and Moved here so I was also a "damn Yankee" so I will admit it might be this Part of the country I live in.... [This message has been edited by DC85, 07-31-2003]
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