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Author | Topic: Fundamentalism versus Critical Thinking | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
**sigh**
Why must you trot out every mythological entity in literature? I dunno...call me strange...but I always knew that Santa Claus was a myth. I could usually deduce that the others were also myths based on their lack of popularity and also their cultural relevance. Of course, the same could be said for the christian God, and if I relied solely on literary research, I suppose I could conclude that God is mythological. There are two basic reasons why I do not. 1) I had a personal experience that I judged to be emotionally and soulfully real to me. I subsequently had other "encounters." I suppose that were I truly unbiased, critically minded, and perhaps even a bit skeptical of lack of evidence, I could disprove God....at least on that level. One thing you don't understand, however, is that I do not as easily dismiss my personal experiences just because they don't make sense from a rational perspective. Besides, that is what faith is all about. Faith does not require evidence or else it would not be faith.
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kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
**sigh** Why must people keep being offended when their imaginary entity is compared to other imaginary entities?
Phat, lack of popularity and cultural relevance is not why I dismiss all those entities I mentioned, it's that they all share the same amount of evidence of existance which is not a shred, your emotional and soulful personal experience asside. If you really applied some critical thinking you would realize that god, especially any specific god that you've made up, probably doesn't exist. It's impossible to disprove god, but it's fairly easy, at least to me, to see that he probably doesn't exist. And it's not just literary research you should look into, look at scientific research as well.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Last I heard, science was not in the business of either proving or disproving God.
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kjsimons Member Posts: 822 From: Orlando,FL Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I didn't say it did, but it keeps reducing the number of dark places deities can hide. It may never remove them all, but at least it's making progress.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Lets think for a minute, though. While one goal of education is to reduce superstition, mythos is thought by some to be a vital part of culture.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2136 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
While one goal of education is to reduce superstition, mythos is thought by some to be a vital part of culture. Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about her children's beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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Brian Member (Idle past 4989 days) Posts: 4659 From: Scotland Joined: |
mythos is thought by some to be a vital part of culture. But only when recognised as myth. There are often tragic consequences when myth is mistaken for reality. Just look at how many millions have been persecuted because Christians think that the resurrection myth was actually a real event.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4219 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Why an atheist? Whats so hard about believing in God? (Forget about scripture) No physical evidence.
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Brian writes: I don't necessarily see a direct cause/effect relationship here. People would be persecuted regardless. Thats just how human nature ends up.
Just look at how many millions have been persecuted because Christians think that the resurrection myth was actually a real event.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Phat writes: Brian writes: Just look at how many millions have been persecuted because Christians think that the resurrection myth was actually a real event. I don't necessarily see a direct cause/effect relationship here. With respect Phat, that may be because you are not Jewish and have never had a Christian lynch mob at your door, baying for your blood. A great many Jews through history have not been so lucky. The Christian characterisation of Jews as Christ-killers has caused a lot of blood to be spilled over the centuries. Those who seek to justify anti-Semitism with the Bible usually believe it to represent very real events. It's much harder to justify pogroms on the basis of a myth.
Phat writes: People would be persecuted regardless. Thats just how human nature ends up. You're probably right, but I can't help feeling that you are being defeatist here. The underlying causes of prejudice and hostility need to be confronted. Belief that the Bible myths are historical has, in this case, been a cause of anti-Semitism and to some extent still is. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Granny Magda writes: The fact that Jesus once lived is hardly in dispute. The belief that He rose from the dead has as much historical evidence as not. The belief that He is alive today is the basis for Christian belief. Belief that the Bible myths are historical has, in this case, been a cause of anti-Semitism and to some extent still is. Many of the problems in modern Christian thought stem from rigid fundamentalist beliefs and exclusivist thinking. One example is the fact that most of the Christians at my church are, unfortunately, Republicans. I try and explain to them that were Jesus here with us today, He most likely would be much more of a socialist than a market capitalist!
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
quote: bluescat48 writes: No physical evidence. We would hardly expect God by definition to have any sort of physical presence, aside from sending a representative in human form, and that argument is far from settled as to eyewitness accounts of past physical evidence. Anyway, as the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous so astutely points out, Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe that there is a power greater than myself? If logic, reason, and lack of evidence prevent one from being even willing to believe...for the sake of argument, there is no way that any sort of evidence would even penetrate the skepticism filter! One of my current favorite quotes is this one:It is the final proof of God's omnipotence that he need not exist in order to save us.~P. De Vries Edited by Phat, : fixed pesky quote
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Phat Member Posts: 18349 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
kjsimons writes: Would it be fairly easy if a person has confirmation bias?
It's impossible to disprove god, but it's fairly easy, at least to me, to see that he probably doesn't exist. And it's not just literary research you should look into, look at scientific research as well.
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined: |
Phat writes: I had a personal experience that I judged to be emotionally and soulfully real to me. My bold. There's your problem. Critically thinking your judgement is flawed.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
The fact that Jesus once lived is hardly in dispute. Except it is. The Jesus Myth Hypothesis has never been overwhelmingly popular amongst scholars, but it still has it's adherents and makes a reasonable case. The evidence for Jesus' existence is scant outside of scripture. To me it seems that the Jesus depicted in the Bible is essentially a fictional character, even if he was based upon a real person. The New Testament is just too unbelievable and inconsistent to be believed.
The belief that He rose from the dead has as much historical evidence as not. I'm not sure what you mean here. As far as I know, the only evidence for the resurrection is contained in the Bible.
Many of the problems in modern Christian thought stem from rigid fundamentalist beliefs and exclusivist thinking. One example is the fact that most of the Christians at my church are, unfortunately, Republicans. I try and explain to them that were Jesus here with us today, He most likely would be much more of a socialist than a market capitalist! Well here we are in total agreement. The blurring of the line between politics and religion in the US is quite disturbing from the perspective of a UK sceptic. The sight of a preacher bellowing "YOU BETTER VOTE FOR JESUS CHRIST!" from his pulpit is more than a little bit scary (I had no idea he was running...). From my reading of the NT, I think that Jesus would be pretty vexed with most political parties. Mutate and Survive. "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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